[swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Cihat Gündüz cihatguenduez at posteo.de
Thu Feb 2 16:50:48 CST 2017

I can only say how I perceive the mailing list from my own perspective:

The mailing list is a really confusing way of following the discussions for me. I never know the context of an answer since my mail clients don’t show the quoted parts correctly. Also I get a lot of emails throughout the day on all my devices (including my Apple Watch), even when I’m really not into reading them. I’d have to create an extra email account or setup some magic filtering to fix this, also make sure I get push notifications only for those other accounts etc. – but this is all too much overhead. Therefore the only options for me are: Get all emails or get none. Everything else it too complicated to configure, given that I just want to read some threads that sound interesting to me and maybe post some ideas here and there.

Discourse is a tool that I like very much and find very clean and understandable. Also it has a thread-summarize feature which would help a lot to get an overview of longer-discussed threads for those of us coming in later on. Note that I once followed the mailing list at the relative beginning of the open source Swift project and stopped doing that simply because it was too many emails that came into my mailbox that I didn’t care about. And that’s what I’m experiencing now again given that I opted in since a week or so now.

What I actually wanted or expected Swift Evolution for me to be was a go-to solution which I can open when I have time and read about discussion on one side and help out with ideas or vote on some issues on the other. I’ve tried Hirundo, I have even tried a folder which contains all Swift threads, I tried Apple Mail and Airmail 3 – but none of them was simple or useful enough, I could never find what I was looking for. Maybe I’m just too stupid for this mailing list, but one thing I know for sure: Discourse would have definitely solved this problem for me. I wondered from the beginning, why a big company like Apple would ever even consider choosing such a poor and unclean interface like a mailing list for discussions. I thought I’m missing something and it’s a lot more productive and tried to use it – but it simply doesn’t fit my needs.

I can understand how a mailing list is interesting if you are working on developing Swift all-day and don’t want to miss any message. But for the open source from-time-to-time contributors and followers of the Swift evolution discussions I don’t think email is a good solution. Discourse would be great for these cases. So, for me personally, if Discourse (or a similar alternative) isn’t considered and tried to be introduced, it means that the goal of Swift is not to have a broad contributing community but rather a small group of people who invest a lot of time to improve the Swift language. Earlier I didn’t think like that, I didn’t think about it at all, I just accepted the mailing list with „it is, what it is“. But now that I know others feel the same or similarly and therefore the guys at Apple are aware of the problem, I’m feeling like this, like that this is a question of how broad the community should be. I’d like to be a part of it, but the mailing list is not my thing. I’d probably drop out soon again … so this is what I think. It might not be of any value for the community, but maybe it’s a voice that wants to be heard, so I’m letting you hear it.

Cihat Gündüz

Am 2. Februar 2017 um 22:47:11, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution (swift-evolution at swift.org) schrieb:

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Karl Wagner <razielim at gmail.com> wrote:
> somebody build a parallel site to support the style of open community which the core-team seem unwilling/unable to do.

I don't think this is fair. We may not be moving as quickly as you'd like but we are looking into it.  

Sent from my moss-covered three-handled family gradunza
swift-evolution mailing list
swift-evolution at swift.org
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