[swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Ted kremenek kremenek at apple.com
Tue Feb 7 12:36:31 CST 2017

Hi Maxim,

This isn't about Apple, this is about how we run the Swift project.  This has nothing to do with the default signature in the Mail app on the iPhone.  Your question here, while well-intentioned, is as you say super off topic and isn't relevant to both the thread and this mailing list.  Let's keep the discussions focused here.

FWIW, I think the running idea with Discourse is to make sure their is a mailing bridge so that people who still want to use email can do that.  You will still then be able to search and print — the question really is how good will that experience be.


> On Feb 7, 2017, at 6:10 AM, Maxim Veksler via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
> Ok, super off topic but since it's Apple after all...
> Email was considered ancient even back at 2007, when the iPhone was lunched and yet someone at Apple decided it was an important enough channel to use it's scale as a promotional channel with the "Sent from my iPhone", this persists to this very day. I wonder - What was the rational behind that decision?  Possibly that might shade some new insights for this ongoing discussion of email vs. web. 
> I personally feel that email is raw, i.e. the "protocol" and there might be a room for a new native based solution aimed at mailing lists which supports "modern" type of communication but behind the scenes communicates using "raw" email messages to enable all the awesome Crusties in the community a valid solution. The beauty of email is that the information is mine. I don't need to worry about anyone shutting their discourse / service down and me losing all the historic reference. I "own" it, I can search it. I can print it and co. 
> -m
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 at 14:09 Tino Heth via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
>>> I’d encourage those who want web forums to give Mail.app a try. It does a remarkable job of keeping emails threaded.
>> That doesn't read like we are using the same Mail.app… it's not failing on a regular basis for me, but it's far away from being remarkable (at least not remarkably good).
>> Sticking with Email feels terribly behind the times, and considering Swift being such a young language, that imho is really odd.
>> Email is old and trusted, but the emphasis is on old: The whole protocol has big flaws which no one anticipated in the early days, which have never been fixed, and which most likely won't be fixed ever.
>> Discourse on the other hand may have some features that could have a tiny negative impact for those who prefer to keep things as they have been in the eighties, but it is not a huge network of servers and clients governed by several billion different parties which makes progress impossible.
>> It's a single software fully controlled by whoever sets it up — and you know what: It's even open source!
>> So every programmer here has the ability to solve all the issues that have been brought up as an argument to stick with mailing lists (and as it happens to be that I am a programmer, that gives me a great feeling of empowerment, whereas the legacy of email leaves me powerless).
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