[swift-evolution] [Swift4] Mailing list vs. Forum

Mon Oct 10 12:19:00 CDT 2016

> On Oct 8, 2016, at 10:01 PM, Jon Shier via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org> wrote:
> 
> It’s not that nobody cares, it’s that it’s ultimately up to Apple to decided how this is going to go, and nobody there seems to care. Until a decision is made there, nothing will happen. Even under the best case scenario I wouldn’t expect anything to happen soon, as Apple doesn’t move quickly for stuff like this.
> 
> To my eyes, the Discourse-powered Rust forums look great.

You are confusing perceived inaction for “not caring”. Discourse does look promising, but it takes some time to evaluate a different technology before we commit to migrating 2,000 participants and some 27,000 existing messages. I suggest patience, and starting from the assumption that the people involved are competent yet busy.

	- Doug

> 
> Jon
> 
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2016, at 7:00 AM, Karl via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> It’s one of those issues where everybody agrees we could do better but nobody cares enough to do anything about it.
>> 
>> In any case I think Discourse seemed to be the only real option because of mailing-list support. So I suppose they next step would be to submit a formal proposal to swift-evo on GitHub?
>> 
>> 
>>> On 7 Oct 2016, at 20:44, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What happened to that talk? Were any decisions made internally? Any news?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Adrian Zubarev
>>> Sent with Airmail
>>> 
>>> Am 21. August 2016 um 17:36:53, Michie via swift-evolution (swift-evolution at swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>) schrieb:
>>> 
>>>> Incase, the Swift team decided to use a forum.
>>>> 
>>>> I would like to suggest Discourse (http://www.discourse.org <http://www.discourse.org/>).
>>>> It is one of the most reliable open-source made forum and most  
>>>> companies have been using it as their forum/community eg. Dockers,  
>>>> Let's Encrypt, etc...
>>>> 
>>>> The Swift Team has a choice to host it on their own or pay  
>>>> discourse.org <http://discourse.org/> to host it for you. Hosting on their own would be more  
>>>> cheaper and gives you more control on how you want it to be set up. We  
>>>> can easily set up a mailing list to all the people watching the  
>>>> discussion and you can add in your own style of Authentication if  
>>>> needed.
>>>> 
>>>> Slack will be very expensive because Slack cost almost $7 per active  
>>>> member per month. If you don't pay, it will definitely be limiting.  
>>>> Also, I don't think using chat for this kind of project will be more  
>>>> productive as people need to revisit some discussions.
>>>> 
>>>> I can help the Swift Team set up Discourse if they are interested and  
>>>> they can create a subdomain: https://community.swift.org <https://community.swift.org/> for it.
>>>> 
>>>> Let me know.
>>>> 
>>>> Michie :)
>>>> 
>>>> Quoting Sean Alling via swift-evolution <swift-evolution at swift.org <mailto:swift-evolution at swift.org>>:
>>>> 
>>>> > +1
>>>> >
>>>> > I think this is a great idea! The use of a mailing list is  
>>>> > manageable for a small (2-10) groups but doesn’t scale to the size  
>>>> > and frequency of comments/replies that the Swift Open Source project  
>>>> > has seen thus far. Not to mention, it reeks of 1996.
>>>> >
>>>> > I’m not sure if we should authenticate users via AppleID, because we  
>>>> > want the Swift community to remain cross-platform going forward.
>>>> >
>>>> > A Slack would be a great idea, for banter but may get crazy. We  
>>>> > would want the slack channels to remain subject pure (i.e., no  
>>>> > shenanigans). Email is good in this regard in that a reply is  
>>>> > expensive and therefore on-topic, whereas slack replies are cheap  
>>>> > and therefore easily off topic. Anyone have any idea to combat that?  
>>>> > Code of Conduct?
>>>> >
>>>> > I think in making this decision we should separate the determination  
>>>> > that the mailing lists are posing too great a burden at our scale  
>>>> > from the selection of what we should use in its stead.
>>>> >
>>>> > - Sean
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> I think this thread should focus on the mailing list vs forum, Slack is
>>>> >> not a forum. It could be nice to have it as an extra if we need it.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It looks to me that all benefits of a mailing list can be achieved by a
>>>> >> forum system with excellent support to read and reply using emails. But
>>>> >> the opposite is not true, one single simple example: we can't even link
>>>> >> related thread using email (as Tino mentioned on the Gmane thread).
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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