<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 8, 2016, at 10:01 PM, Jon Shier via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">It’s not that nobody cares, it’s that it’s ultimately up to Apple to decided how this is going to go, and nobody there seems to care. Until a decision is made there, nothing will happen. Even under the best case scenario I wouldn’t expect anything to happen soon, as Apple doesn’t move quickly for stuff like this.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">To my eyes, the Discourse-powered Rust forums look great.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>You are confusing perceived inaction for “not caring”. Discourse does look promising, but it takes some time to evaluate a different technology before we commit to migrating 2,000 participants and some 27,000 existing messages. I suggest patience, and starting from the assumption that the people involved are competent yet busy.</div><div><br class=""></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>- Doug</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Jon</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 8, 2016, at 7:00 AM, Karl via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">It’s one of those issues where everybody agrees we could do better but nobody cares enough to do anything about it.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In any case I think Discourse seemed to be the only real option because of mailing-list support. So I suppose they next step would be to submit a formal proposal to swift-evo on GitHub?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 7 Oct 2016, at 20:44, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="bloop_markdown" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);"><p style="margin: 15px 0px; -webkit-margin-before: 0px;" class="">What happened to that talk? Were any decisions made internally? Any news?</p><div style="margin: 15px 0px;" class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><div class="bloop_original_html" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);"><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; margin: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div id="bloop_sign_1475865769672791040" class="bloop_sign"><div style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 13px;" class="">-- <br class="">Adrian Zubarev<br class="">Sent with Airmail</div></div><br class=""><p class="airmail_on" style="margin: 15px 0px;">Am 21. August 2016 um 17:36:53, Michie via swift-evolution (<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="color: rgb(65, 131, 196); background-color: inherit; text-decoration: none;" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>) schrieb:</p><blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq" style="margin: 15px 0px;"><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""></div><div class="">Incase, the Swift team decided to use a forum.<br class=""><br class="">I would like to suggest Discourse (<a href="http://www.discourse.org/" style="color: rgb(65, 131, 196); background-color: inherit; text-decoration: none;" class="">http://www.discourse.org</a>).<br class="">It is one of the most reliable open-source made forum and most<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">companies have been using it as their forum/community eg. Dockers,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Let's Encrypt, etc...<br class=""><br class="">The Swift Team has a choice to host it on their own or pay<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><a href="http://discourse.org/" style="color: rgb(65, 131, 196); background-color: inherit; text-decoration: none;" class="">discourse.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>to host it for you. Hosting on their own would be more<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">cheaper and gives you more control on how you want it to be set up. We<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">can easily set up a mailing list to all the people watching the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">discussion and you can add in your own style of Authentication if<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">needed.<br class=""><br class="">Slack will be very expensive because Slack cost almost $7 per active<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">member per month. If you don't pay, it will definitely be limiting.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Also, I don't think using chat for this kind of project will be more<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">productive as people need to revisit some discussions.<br class=""><br class="">I can help the Swift Team set up Discourse if they are interested and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">they can create a subdomain:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://community.swift.org/" style="color: rgb(65, 131, 196); background-color: inherit; text-decoration: none;" class="">https://community.swift.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for it.<br class=""><br class="">Let me know.<br class=""><br class="">Michie :)<br class=""><br class="">Quoting Sean Alling via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="color: rgb(65, 131, 196); background-color: inherit; text-decoration: none;" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>:<br class=""><br class="">> +1<br class="">><br class="">> I think this is a great idea! The use of a mailing list is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> manageable for a small (2-10) groups but doesn’t scale to the size<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> and frequency of comments/replies that the Swift Open Source project<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> has seen thus far. Not to mention, it reeks of 1996.<br class="">><br class="">> I’m not sure if we should authenticate users via AppleID, because we<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> want the Swift community to remain cross-platform going forward.<br class="">><br class="">> A Slack would be a great idea, for banter but may get crazy. We<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> would want the slack channels to remain subject pure (i.e., no<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> shenanigans). Email is good in this regard in that a reply is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> expensive and therefore on-topic, whereas slack replies are cheap<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> and therefore easily off topic. Anyone have any idea to combat that?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> Code of Conduct?<br class="">><br class="">> I think in making this decision we should separate the determination<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> that the mailing lists are posing too great a burden at our scale<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> from the selection of what we should use in its stead.<br class="">><br class="">> - Sean<br class="">><br class="">><br class="">>> I think this thread should focus on the mailing list vs forum, Slack is<br class="">>> not a forum. It could be nice to have it as an extra if we need it.<br class="">>><br class="">>> It looks to me that all benefits of a mailing list can be achieved by a<br class="">>> forum system with excellent support to read and reply using emails. But<br class="">>> the opposite is not true, one single simple example: we can't even link<br class="">>> related thread using email (as Tino mentioned on the Gmane thread).<br class="">>><br class="">>><br class="">>><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="color: rgb(65, 131, 196); background-color: inherit; text-decoration: none;" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="color: rgb(65, 131, 196); background-color: inherit; text-decoration: none;" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></div></span></blockquote></div><div class="bloop_markdown" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; 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