<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Easy explained - The problem rises indeed not from the added features but from the fp group that imposes it’s usage in the Standard libraries and “the swifty way”. I like many features of Swift (or I wouldn’t be here) but I don’t want to live in Haskel world. And for some reason these guys become more and more influential in the community.</div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 9 Feb 2017, at 19:30, <a href="mailto:msheaver@me.com" class="">msheaver@me.com</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div name="messageBodySection" style="font-size: 14px; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, sans-serif;" class="">I have a simple question along this line: How does expanding the capabilities of Swift detract or impair its use in a fully OO manner? From what I have seen, if you want to use it in a strictly OO manner, great! If you want to use it in a strictly functional manner, no problem. If you want to use it in hybrid mode, go for it.
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<div class="">Giving developers the flexibility to code in the manner they are most comfortable with can only improve creativity and productivity. It also improves the appeal of the language to others.</div>
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<div class="">Unless, of course, I am missing something here.</div>
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On Feb 9, 2017, 1:09 PM -0500, Jan Neumüller via swift-users <<a href="mailto:swift-users@swift.org" class="">swift-users@swift.org</a>>, wrote:<br class="">
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<div class="">This is just for explanation. I have given up for the content, the world does move in this direction and I can’t stop it.</div>
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<div class="">On 9 Feb 2017, at 18:29, Cihat Gündüz <<a href="mailto:cihatguenduez@posteo.de" class="">cihatguenduez@posteo.de</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div id="bloop_customfont" style="margin: 0px;" class="">@Jan: Your arguments are very subjective if not even insulting and derogatory to many people who invest a lot of time and effort in crafting those things you despise so openly. Here are just a few example quotes for you to reflect your language:</div>
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<div id="bloop_customfont" style="margin: 0px;" class="">"I despise fp“, „is so annoying“, "made Swift imo a worse language“, "I hate ‚modern' or as I call it ugly“, "<a href="http://airmail.calendar/2017-02-09%2012:00:00%20MEZ" class="">Today</a>’s standards are a bag of pain“, "crappy sites als Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Stackoverflow, add lots of other 'cool' sites“, "I can’t stand scrolling“, "I hate both“, "todays absolutely useless crap“, …</div>
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FP: I think many coders hate it with a passion, a fact fans of fp don’t generally like. For me it’s the total brain breaking “logic” behind FP and lambda calculus. I started programming with assembly on mos6502 and took most languages since then. There is one family I never got my brain wrapped around it as it works against the complete working of my brain: functional programming.</div>
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<div class="">And yes I think the push for more fp elements made Swift a worse language. How is that an attack?</div>
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<div class="">How should I call stuff that induces eye strain and headaches from usage? Todays modern web technics most often lead to imo totally bad websites that are a clearly worse then most sites before the web 2.0 hype. Sorry if I am to direct as a german but dancing around topics is a waste of time.</div>
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<div id="bloop_customfont" style="margin: 0px;" class="">Please be aware that this behavior is against the <a href="https://swift.org/community/#code-of-conduct" class="">Code of Conduct</a> of the Swift Community. Let’s try to stay objective and justify different opinions rationally instead of personally. Of course it is valid for you to say that you don’t like FP or that you don’t like how the world is changing in general. But please be aware that you have to add the reason why you think it is so in detail, so we understand your thinking and can overcome changes to the wrong direction. Senctences like „I despise FP“ without any explanation are not a form of constructive feedback though, nobody will learn anything from that kind of thing. Currently you’re merely expressing your anger here, no more, no less.</div>
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Anger? And there is no reason after gotten steamrolled by evolution on this discussion by simply NOT ASKING US (Swift-Users) and simply presented a decision? Should we be happy that a part of the community sees itself apparently as more important then the rest? Of course I’m angry after such actions - who wouldn’t?</div>
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<div id="bloop_customfont" style="margin: 0px;" class="">@Jens: One of the biggest reasons I’m all for Discourse is the fact that it’s open source. What this implies is: You know exactly what happens with the data you save there, and, there is no dependency on a third-party service which could change or even close over time. This is why I’m against <a href="http://groups.io/" class="">groups.io</a>, GitHub Issues or any other non-open source solution. What it also means is: If the open source tool we decided to go for (Discourse) doesn’t have good support for emails yet, we can implement it ourselves, improve the existing support or add a bridge to another open source tool that can deal with that.</div>
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<div class="">Sadly Discourse stands under a license that makes contributing a nogo for many. As a BSD dev I NEVER would put any of my code under GPL. This is a thing we should not forget - fitting licenses.</div>
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Jan_______________________________________________<br class="">
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