<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I don't think Andrew's point was ridiculous. If you feel strongly about changing this, consider filing an enhancement request at <a href="http://bugs.swift.org" class="">bugs.swift.org</a>.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-- E<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 9, 2016, at 9:15 AM, Don Wills via swift-users <<a href="mailto:swift-users@swift.org" class="">swift-users@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class="">"Iff" may be clearer to you, but it is likely a complete unknown to many beginning programmers and to non-English speakers as the previous comment shows. Many would likely just think it's a typo. I really don't see the harm in spelling it out.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And to posit that the equivalent four words is somehow less obvious is ridiculous.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Don Wills<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 9, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Andrew Clissold <<a href="mailto:andrewclissold@gmail.com" class="">andrewclissold@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="white-space:pre-wrap" class="">I would argue that "iff" is actually clearer and less brief, even though it's fewer letters, because it forces you to stop and think "oh, they mean it in the rigorous, mathematical sense of the phrase." And if you haven't encountered it in math, you're far more likely to Google it. They technically mean the same thing, but "if and only if" is much easier to gloss over!<br class=""><br class="">Andrew</div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="">On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 8:45 PM Don Wills via swift-users <<a href="mailto:swift-users@swift.org" class="">swift-users@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">IMO, clarity is more important than brevity, particularly when novices and non-English speakers might not "get it".<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What's the harm in using "if and only if" instead of "iff"? IMO, none. I suggest using words, not a TLA.</div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Don Wills</div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 8, 2016, at 7:35 PM, zhaoxin肇鑫 via swift-users <<a href="mailto:swift-users@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-users@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">I, as a none-native-English-speaker, do think iff as a type error at first for a long time. And I doubt it as I see it everywhere. But I have never look it up.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">I just use iff as if and do not think there is a much difference. I thank to Brian for he finally letting me know the real meaning. I think if itself means iff, but I am not computer major, so I can only represent as a layman.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">zhaoxin</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 2:18 AM, Erica Sadun via swift-users <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:swift-users@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-users@swift.org</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class="">I personally wouldn't change it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A few thoughts:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">* It's a well known term of art among developers</div><div class="">* If you see "iff" more than once, you're going to be curious</div><div class="">* Hopefully you'll type "<b class="">what does iff mean</b>" into Google at that point and Google will respond like this: <a href="http://imgur.com/1a7b3rp" target="_blank" class="">http://imgur.com/1a7b3rp</a></div><div class="">* see also: <a href="http://ericasadun.com/2015/09/30/dear-erica-whats-iff/" target="_blank" class="">http://ericasadun.com/2015/09/30/dear-erica-whats-iff/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-- E</div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 7, 2016, at 9:16 PM, Brian Bauer via swift-users <<a href="mailto:swift-users@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-users@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div class="">I apologize in advance if this subject has already been discussed and decided (as far as I can tell, the mailing list archives go back only about 60 days)…<br class=""><br class="">When running through the Swift Tour portion of the Swift eBook, on page 10 there is a code snippet showing an example of the switch statement. While typing that into an Xcode playground, I get a code completion popup on the “hasSuffix” method and the documentation says “Returns true iff self ends with suffix.” This looks like a typo. I know that it means “If and Only If” but to a less experienced developer this is likely to be misunderstood, especially as I can find no explanation for “iff” anywhere in the documentation.<br class=""><br class="">The source of this documentation nugget is a comment in /stdlib/public/core/StringLegacy.swift, so I think discussion of the topic is relevant here.<br class=""><br class="">Swift is touted as being friendly to new programmers and I don’t think it is reasonable to expect new programmers to understand “iff” and I also don’t think it is reasonable to spend a paragraph explaining “iff” at the beginning of an introduction to Swift, thus I suggest removing “iff” from all code comments that are likely to become user-facing documentation (the triple slash). Or at the very least, user-facing documentation that is likely to be read by beginners.<br class=""><br class="">A quick grep of the source gives me somewhere in the neighborhood of 130 instances of “iff” in a triple-slash comment, and I am more than happy to make all of the changes and submit pull requests. Before taking on that work, however, I would like to know if such a change would be welcome or if anyone has a better idea, etc.<br class=""><br class="">Thanks,<br class="">Brian<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-users mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-users@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-users@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-users" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-users</a><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">
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