<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Oh, I see… the case would silently change from unexpected to default if they were both included. Hmm. I will have to think on this more.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks,</div><div class="">Jon<div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 5, 2018, at 3:17 PM, Jordan Rose <<a href="mailto:jordan_rose@apple.com" class="">jordan_rose@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 5, 2018, at 00:11, Jonathan Hull via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">On Jan 4, 2018, at 11:02 PM, Xiaodi Wu <<a href="mailto:xiaodi.wu@gmail.com" class="">xiaodi.wu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 01:56 Jonathan Hull <<a href="mailto:jhull@gbis.com" class="">jhull@gbis.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 4, 2018, at 10:31 PM, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div></blockquote></div></div><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto" class=""><br class="m_-6848785603287200834Apple-interchange-newline">On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 00:21 Cheyo Jimenez <<a href="mailto:cheyo@masters3d.com" target="_blank" class="">cheyo@masters3d.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On Jan 4, 2018, at 4:37 PM, Xiaodi Wu <<a href="mailto:xiaodi.wu@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">xiaodi.wu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="auto" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto" class="">On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 19:29 Cheyo J. Jimenez <<a href="mailto:cheyo@masters3d.com" target="_blank" class="">cheyo@masters3d.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">We seem to agree that, by virtue of not supporting use in a pattern and being placed at the end, the feature is a flavor of default. I’m still not sure I understand why you believe it should not be a flavor of default going forward.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class=""><div class=""></div></div></div><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">You still haven’t answered my question, though—what’s the use case for the feature you propose?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class="">My use case would be distinguishing between compile time known cases vs “future only” cases (or unknown cases).</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">I understand that the feature you propose would allow you to make such a distinction, but again, what is your use case for doing so?</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="auto" class="">Breaking out early by checking unknown cases first. I admit this is not deal breaker, just a different style I’d like to see supported in the future. </div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">I'm still not sure I understand. How can the machine know that it's dealing with an unknown case without first checking if it matches any known case?</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div class="gmail_quote"></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">I had the same thought as Cheyo. It isn’t a deal breaker… I like the compromise, but I would prefer it trigger only on an actual unknown case (as opposed to acting like default). I like to break failure cases out at the top when possible. I don’t see any good reason not to support that style.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">To answer your question, in the naive sense, it basically is the same question as asking if it is a known case (and then taking the inverse). That doesn’t mean actually checking each case separately though. For example, if the enum cases are internally represented as an unsigned integer, and they are all together in a block, the compiler could simply check that it is greater than the max known value. You could probably even do a bit mask comparison in some cases...</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">These are obvious optimizations, but why does this require new syntax?</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am not sure I understand what you are asking. There isn’t additional syntax. We are just arguing over the name + behavior of ‘unexpected:’. You want it to behave like ‘default’ and I am saying that stops the use case I mention above.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">What do you gain from writing the unknown case first?</div></div></blockquote><div class="">I know where to look for the failure cases. I also tend put a bunch of guard statements near the beginning of a function. It is just a programming style.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">With my behavior of ‘unexpected:’ you can put it wherever you want. Why limit that by forcing it to go at the end?</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Isn't this basically the same thing as asking for the ability to write the default case first, a frequently suggested and rejected syntax addition?</div></div></blockquote><br class=""><div class="">No. I don’t think I have ever heard that asked for, but putting default in a different place has a different meaning. The way I read a switch statement anyway is that it tries each case until it find one that matches. Default matches everything, so it has to go at the end (since it will always match and nothing afterwards will be tried).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Having ‘unexpected:’ also match known/expected cases is problematic as a mental model. I think that is just an artifact of the original proposal using default. There is no reason 'unexpected:’ should have to handle known cases as well… let’s just have it trigger on unexpected ones.</div></div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">I'm going to repeat this from my reply to Cheyo earlier: I really, really don't want recompiling code against a different version of the library to pick a different case than it did before.</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">(This might be a weak argument since overload resolution, protocol conformance checking, etc can end up picking a different declaration than it did before. But I would hope that the overloads or alternate protocol witnesses at least "do the same thing" in normal situations, if possibly more efficiently. I wouldn't expect that for `unknown case` vs. `default` if you actually had both of them.)</div><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">The reason `unknown case` has to match known cases is, again, for source compatibility. If the compiler only produces a warning, rather than an error, when you're missing a case, it has to do<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">something</i> if that case comes up. The most reasonable thing for it to do (in the absence of a separate `default`) is for that to go to the `unknown case`, just like it would have with the last version of the app. That's why I chose to associate it with `default` in the proposal, not the other way around.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Jordan</div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>