<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Look like we don’t know the same users.<div class="">I don’t know a single user that didn’t update it’s device at least once since he bought it, even if some may avoid the latest update when there device grow old though.<div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Le 25 déc. 2017 à 05:46, Kelvin Ma via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">in theory this could happen but if you ask me this is such an exceedingly rare case that i don’t count much net benefit from it. most ithing users (that i know) avoid ios updates like hell but have automatic app updates turned on. so 99% of the time i would expect the app version to be more recent than the library version.<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 9:59 PM, Slava Pestov <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:spestov@apple.com" target="_blank" class="">spestov@apple.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 24, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Kelvin Ma via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_8029153628071452797Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">why can’t we just remove inlineable functions from ABI altogether? if the argument is that app code won’t be able to take advantage of improved implementations in future library versions i don’t think that makes sense at all i would assume client code gets recompiled much more often than library code and their updates are much more likely to be downloaded by users than library updates. <br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></span><div class="">This is not necessarily true. If Swift were to ship with the OS, updating the OS might install a new Swift standard library without updating all of your apps.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Slava</div></font></span><div class=""><div class="h5"><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 6:04 PM, Howard Lovatt via swift-evolution <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">Proposal link:</span><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class=""> </span><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0193-cross-module-inlining-and-specialization.md" dir="ltr" style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" target="_blank" class="">https://github.com/apple<wbr class="">/swift-evolution/blob/master/<wbr class="">proposals/0193-cross-module-<wbr class="">inlining-and-specialization.md</a><br class=""><ul style="margin:15px 0px;padding-left:30px" class=""><li style="margin:0px" class=""><span class=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">What is your evaluation of <a dir="ltr" class="">the proposal</a>?</span></p></span><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">-1</span></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">The proposal puts all the emphasis on the programmer. It is better for the compiler to decide if something is to be inclined both across modules and within modules. </span></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">If something is made public then it should be fixed for a given major version number. No need for extra annotation. </span></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">A module system that allows versioning is a better solution. </span></p></li><li style="margin:0px" class=""><span class=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?</span></p></span><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">Yes significant but wrong solution </span></p></li><li style="margin:0px" class=""><span class=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</span></p></span><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">No, cluttering up declarations is completely against the clarity of Swift. For example who other than people on this group will understand @inline(never) @inlinable. </span></p></li><li style="margin:0px" class=""><span class=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</span></p></span><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">Yes C and C++ and found the equivalent of these annotations problematic. In Java they eliminated all this and let the compiler do the work. In practice this works much better. </span></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">Perhaps the compiler should publish the SIL or LLVM for all public functions. Analogous to Java’s class files. This sort of system works really will, much better than C and C++. </span></p></li><li style="margin:0px" class=""><span class=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</span></p></span><div class="">Followed the discussions and read the proposal. The proposal doesn’t seem to encompass all the discussions. It would be nice if the proposal had a much more extensive summary of alternatives suggested. </div></li></ul><div id="m_8029153628071452797m_3618473774001932738AppleMailSignature" class="">-- Howard. </div><span class=""><div class=""><br class="">On 20 Dec 2017, at 7:19 pm, Ted Kremenek via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><p style="margin:15px 0px;font-family:Helvetica,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class=""><span class="">The proposal</span> is available here:</p>
<blockquote style="margin:5px 5px;padding-left:10px;border-left:thin solid #1abc9c" class=""><div style="margin:0px" class=""><span class=""><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0193-cross-module-inlining-and-specialization.md" target="_blank" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift<wbr class="">-evolution/blob/master/proposa<wbr class="">ls/0193-cross-module-inlining-<wbr class="">and-specialization.md</a></span></div>
</blockquote><p style="margin:15px 0px;font-family:Helvetica,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">Reviews are an important part of the Swift evolution process. All review feedback should be sent to the swift-evolution mailing list at:</p>
<blockquote style="margin:5px 5px;padding-left:10px;border-left:thin solid #1abc9c" class=""><div style="margin:0px" class=""><span class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailma<wbr class="">n/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></span></div>
</blockquote><p style="margin:15px 0px;font-family:Helvetica,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">or, if you would like to keep your feedback private, directly to the review manager. </p><p style="margin:15px 0px;font-family:Helvetica,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">When replying, please try to keep <span class="">the proposal</span> link at the top of the message:</p>
<blockquote style="margin:5px 5px;padding-left:10px;border-left:thin solid #1abc9c" class=""><div style="margin:0px" class="">Proposal link: <span class=""><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0193-cross-module-inlining-and-specialization.md" target="_blank" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift<wbr class="">-evolution/blob/master/proposa<wbr class="">ls/0193-cross-module-inlining-<wbr class="">and-specialization.md</a></span><br class="">
...<br class="">
Reply text<br class="">
...<br class="">
Other replies</div>
</blockquote>
<h3 id="m_8029153628071452797m_3618473774001932738toc_0" style="margin:20px 0px 10px;padding:0px;font-size:18px;font-family:Helvetica,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">What goes into a review of a proposal?</h3><p style="margin:15px 0px;font-family:Helvetica,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">The goal of the review process is to improve <span class="">the proposal</span> under review through constructive criticism and, eventually, determine the direction of Swift. </p><p style="margin:15px 0px;font-family:Helvetica,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">When reviewing a proposal, here are some questions to consider:</p>
<ul style="margin:15px 0px;padding-left:30px;font-family:Helvetica,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">
<li style="margin:0px" class=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class="">What is your evaluation of <span class="">the proposal</span>?</p>
</li>
<li style="margin:0px" class=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class="">Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?</p>
</li>
<li style="margin:0px" class=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class="">Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</p>
</li>
<li style="margin:0px" class=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class="">If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</p>
</li>
<li style="margin:0px" class=""><p style="margin:0px 0px 15px" class="">How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</p>
</li>
</ul><div style="margin-top:15px;margin-right:0px;margin-left:0px;font-family:Helvetica,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);margin-bottom:0px!important" class=""><br class="m_8029153628071452797webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></blockquote></span></div><br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
swift-evolution mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class="">
<a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailma<wbr class="">n/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class="">
<br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""></div>
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/<wbr class="">mailman/listinfo/swift-<wbr class="">evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>