<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Not everyone uses the IDE as a crutch for writing code. As someone who has used many languages, editors, and operating systems, I don't rely on autocomplete and sometimes turn it off because it gets in my way.<div><br></div><div>my experience with C# was sometimes frustrating because it could be hard to find the return type of a function, or the type of a "var" variable. Xcode's playgrounds, faster search, and "print(type(of:x))" provides a nicer experience.</div><div><br></div><div>(you should try Resharper and C# to see what refactoring support should look like.)<br><br><div id="AppleMailSignature"><div>C. Keith Ray</div><div><a href="https://leanpub.com/wepntk" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 13pt;">https://leanpub.com/wepntk</a><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 13pt;"> <- buy my book?</span></div><div><a href="http://agilesolutionspace.blogspot.com/">http://agilesolutionspace.blogspot.com/</a></div><div>twitter: @ckeithray</div><div><a href="http://www.thirdfoundationsw.com/keith_ray_resume_2014_long.pdf">http://www.thirdfoundationsw.com/keith_ray_resume_2014_long.pdf</a></div></div><div><br>On Dec 4, 2017, at 8:32 PM, Joe DeCapo <<a href="mailto:snoogansbc@gmail.com">snoogansbc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 4, 2017, at 9:30 PM, Chris Lattner <<a href="mailto:clattner@nondot.org" class="">clattner@nondot.org</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""><br class="">I personally am far more interested in getting to the bottom of Doug’s concerns - it isn’t clear to me what exactly his preferred direction actually is, but that discussion is based on engineering tradeoffs and may well lead to a change to the proposal or a complete change in direction.<br class=""><br class="">-Chris<br class=""></div></blockquote><br class=""></div>Some notes on one of Doug's points:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><span style="font-family: SourceCodePro-Regular;" class="">* Indexing/jump-to-definition/lookup documentation/generated interface won’t ever work. None of the IDE features supported by SourceKit will work, which will be a significant regression for users coming from a Python-capable IDE.</span><br class=""></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Here's the state of the art in PyCharm in my personal Python project (no type hints, but full comprehensive doc comments):</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><Screenshot 2017-12-04 22.11.22.png></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><Screenshot 2017-12-04 22.11.47.png></div><div><br class=""></div><div><Screenshot 2017-12-04 22.12.05.png></div><div><br class=""></div><div>PyCharm is able to get the trivial cases right, but anything more complex than definitions and calls contained in a single file tend to end up looking something like that. I don't see any way that Swift could improve on that, and it's a foreign experience to anyone used to developing Swift code in Xcode.</div><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div></body></html>