<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: SourceCodePro-Regular;"><div class="">On Dec 4, 2017, at 9:30 PM, Chris Lattner <<a href="mailto:clattner@nondot.org" class="">clattner@nondot.org</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""><br class="">I personally am far more interested in getting to the bottom of Doug’s concerns - it isn’t clear to me what exactly his preferred direction actually is, but that discussion is based on engineering tradeoffs and may well lead to a change to the proposal or a complete change in direction.<br class=""><br class="">-Chris<br class=""></div></blockquote><br class="" style="font-family: SourceCodePro-Regular;"></div>Some notes on one of Doug's points:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class="" style="font-family: SourceCodePro-Regular;">* Indexing/jump-to-definition/lookup documentation/generated interface won’t ever work. None of the IDE features supported by SourceKit will work, which will be a significant regression for users coming from a Python-capable IDE.</span><br class=""></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Here's the state of the art in PyCharm in a personal Python project (no type hints, but full comprehensive doc comments):</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/ob54qalshf6gqth/Screenshot 2017-12-04 22.11.22.png?dl=0" class="">https://www.dropbox.com/s/ob54qalshf6gqth/Screenshot%202017-12-04%2022.11.22.png?dl=0</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/drw6991u512g456/Screenshot 2017-12-04 22.11.47.png?dl=0" class="">https://www.dropbox.com/s/drw6991u512g456/Screenshot%202017-12-04%2022.11.47.png?dl=0</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8wuy91r1hfnsvj/Screenshot 2017-12-04 22.12.05.png?dl=0" class="">https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8wuy91r1hfnsvj/Screenshot%202017-12-04%2022.12.05.png?dl=0</a></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">PyCharm is able to get the trivial cases right, but any of the more complex cases tend to end up looking something like that. I don't see any way that Swift could improve on that, and it's still a foreign experience to anyone used to developing Swift code in Xcode.</div></div></div></body></html>