<div dir="ltr">+1 from me.<div><br></div><div>I have, all along, wished that we could use the designated/convenience initializer patterns with structs. This moves us a little bit closer, at least.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Slava Pestov via swift-evolution <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><br><div><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 27, 2017, at 11:04 AM, Ben Langmuir <<a href="mailto:blangmuir@apple.com" target="_blank">blangmuir@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-4070898789482099296Apple-interchange-newline"><div><br class="m_-4070898789482099296Apple-interchange-newline"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>On Nov 17, 2017, at 5:59 PM, Slava Pestov <<a href="mailto:spestov@apple.com" target="_blank">spestov@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-4070898789482099296Apple-interchange-newline"><div><br class="m_-4070898789482099296Apple-interchange-newline"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>On Nov 17, 2017, at 8:57 PM, Jordan Rose via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-4070898789482099296Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br class="m_-4070898789482099296Apple-interchange-newline"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 17, 2017, at 15:20, Ben Langmuir <<a href="mailto:blangmuir@apple.com" target="_blank">blangmuir@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-4070898789482099296Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Hi Jordan,<div><br></div><div>First off, this is clearly the model we should have had all along ;-) That said, I have a concern about source-compat and our ability to automatically migrate code impacted by this change.<div><blockquote type="cite"><h2 style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;line-height:1.25;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(234,236,239);color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Source compatibility</h2><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">This makes existing code invalid in Swift 5, which is a source compatibility break.</p></blockquote><div>It's not just a source compatibility break, it's a break that cannot necessarily be fixed if you don't control the module that vended the struct. If a library doesn't expose an appropriate initializer, there is no way for the client to invent one. Similarly, this isn't going to be very amenable to automatic migration, since</div><div>a) there may not be a memberwise initializer to use</div><div>b) even if there is, it may change the semantics to use it</div><div><br></div><div>There are two classes that we could theoretically migrate automatically:</div><div>1) C structs, since we know the initializer and its semantics</div><div>2) when we are migrating the code that defines the struct at the same time</div><div><br></div><div>The latter case might be tricky though, since it requires more global knowledge than we have in today's migrator.</div><div><br></div><div>Any thoughts? Do we have an idea how common this is or what kinds of places it comes up in most often (in a single codebase with multiple modules vs external dependencies vs C structs vs ....)?</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">This is good to bring up, but I think "this can't be migrated" is the correct answer for Swift structs. It's equivalent in my mind to when someone was passing 'nil' to something that wasn't annotated for nullability and now is marked '_Nonnull': it's source-breaking, and what you had before might even have worked, but there's no guarantee that it would keep working in the future. That's harder to sell for multi-module projects or even test targets, though. I don't have a great answer there, but I don't think it's worth bending over backwards to handle the "I migrate everything at once" case.</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">The C case is a bit harder to sell, which is why I made sure there were fix-its to suggest inserting `self.init()` (the zeroing initializer) in most cases (both in Swift 4 mode and Swift 5 mode). Not all C structs<span class="m_-4070898789482099296Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>have</i> that initializer (specifically, if they have a member marked _Nonnull), but nearly all do, and that's something the migrator could insert fairly easily, as you note.</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">The mitigating factor I'm hoping for is that these become warnings in Swift 4.1, which is planned to ship in a mid-year Xcode (can I admit that publicly, swift-evolution?), and that therefore many people will have cleaned up their code well before they even think of switching to Swift 5. But yes, this is a breaking, non-migratable language change that's only strictly necessary for libraries with binary compatibility, which most libraries today are not, and that has to be acknowledged.</div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">The migrator could also detect special cases, for example:</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">- there is a public member wise initializer — instead of initializing the fields directly, it could suggest adding a call to that instead</div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Are you suggesting we do this even when we don't know the semantics of the init we would be calling (e.g. it might introduce new side effects)? I was thinking this would be unsafe to transform automatically, or at least we'd want to draw the developer's attention to it to verify it didn't change the behaviour.</div><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">- there is a public no-argument initializer — here it might be sufficient to insert a call to self.init() prior to initializing fields</div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Good point about being able to use the no-arg init, although with the same caveat as the previous case I think.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>Yeah in general the amount of existing code that would be affected by this is an open question. This is why we wanted to stage the warning into 4.1 and see if people complain first.</div><div><br></div><div>Slava</div><span class=""><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Ben</div><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Slava</div><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Jordan</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">________________________<wbr>_______________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/swift-<wbr>evolution</a></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></span></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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