<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 16, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Christopher Kornher via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">On Sep 16, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Rod Brown via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On 16 Sep 2017, at 7:22 pm, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">I am still unsure why we are choosing again a default that protects library writers more than library users where it is reasonable to expect the former to have better mastery of the language, to architect a library with some scalability, and ability to add unit test to cover themselves from issues than the latter.</div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Because protecting library owners protects library users.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If a library writer can’t remember to declare non-exhaustive enums as such, they probably will forget many more important aspects of creating a library. They probably should not be writing libraries. Arguments like this make sense on the surface, but creating libraries involves hundreds or thousands of decisions. I wish you luck in making that process idiot proof. A library linter could easily warn that exposed enums are exhaustive. The exhaustive keyword should be optional to make the decision obvious and suppress warnings. Complicating the user experience in a vain attempt to make “expert" coding safer is misguided.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>This may be a little harsh, but there don’t seem to be many advocates for novice and “ordinary” application developers on this list. That is not unexpected given the number of extremely knowledgeable compiler and library developers on this list (for whom I have the highest respect). I believe that there are more creative (and probably more difficult to build) possible solutions to some of the tough problems in Swift’s future. In that spirit, see below.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you declare it is exhaustive and it was an oversight, and then realise after the fact that you are wrong, you have to open it up. This will break third party apps. It will be disallowed by the ABI compatibility requirements.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you declare it isn’t exhaustive due to an oversight (or perhaps you’re just not sure yet), and then realise after the fact it is exhaustive, you can close it up. This will not break third party apps. It will also be allowed for ABI compatibility.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This benefits everyone. Make library owners choose a guarantee, rather than be defaulted into it. Much like they have to declare choose to declare “final” on a class: you can’t retroactively reneg that promise: it will break everyone who assumed it to be the case!</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It does not benefit the creation of 90+% of enums. It is one more arcane rule for the vast majority of developers.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>The Swift compiler could offer a “strict enum exhaustiveness” (bikeshedding not included) switch that could be enabled by default for library targets and disabled by default for “application” targets. The switch would make not explicitly specifying exhaustiveness an error or warning when enabled. Perhaps this could be combined with other options that would tailor the development experience for library/application developers. This would help avoid “zero-sum” choices between benefitting library or application developers in the future.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Xcode and the SPM should be able to distinguish between the target types and generate the proper defaults. I do not believe that this is too mysterious for developers. There would be learning step for developers wiring their first library, but that is not necessarily a bad thing since creating a reusable library requires a different mindset than creating an application.</div><div><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Exhaustive and open by default with keywords to close things down if the framework author wants them.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">Sent from my iPhone</div><div class=""><br class="">On 16 Sep 2017, at 09:55, David Hart via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">I’m still very much bothered by having 2 new keywords. I would really prefer the following plan:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ul class="MailOutline"><li class="">Exhaustive by default in Swift 4</li><li class="">No new keyword in Swift 4 to change that behaviour</li><li class="">Non-exhaustive by default outside the module in Swift 5</li><li class=""><b class="">exhaustive</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>keyword to change the default behaviour</li></ul><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="">Like that, we don’t need<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">nonexhaustive</b>.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thoughts?</div><div class="">David.</div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 13 Sep 2017, at 21:16, Jordan Rose via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">Proposal updated, same URL: <a href="https://github.com/jrose-apple/swift-evolution/blob/non-exhaustive-enums/proposals/nnnn-non-exhaustive-enums.md" class="">https://github.com/jrose-apple/swift-evolution/blob/non-exhaustive-enums/proposals/nnnn-non-exhaustive-enums.md</a>.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks again for all the feedback so far, everyone!</div><div class="">Jordan</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 12, 2017, at 17:55, Jordan Rose via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">Sorry, I got distracted by other tasks! Both the discussion here and within Apple has moved towards making "non-exhaustive" the default, which, to be honest, I too think is the best design. I'll update the proposal today to reflect that, though I still want to keep both the "nonexhaustive" and "exhaustive" keywords for Swift 4 compatibility for now (or whatever we end up naming them). The compatibility design is a little less ambitious than Brent's; as currently proposed, Swift 4 mode continues to default to 'exhaustive' all the time, even in the actual Swift 5 release.<br class=""><br class="">I still want to respond to Brent's points directly, but I think you and Vladimir have done a good job discussing them already. I'll send out the updated proposal tomorrow, after I have a little more time to think about #invalid.<br class=""><br class="">Thanks for putting time into this!<br class="">Jordan<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On Sep 9, 2017, at 17:34, Rod Brown <<a href="mailto:rodney.brown6@icloud.com" class="">rodney.brown6@icloud.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">Jordan,<br class=""><br class="">Do you have any other thoughts about the ongoing discussion here, especially regarding Chris’ comments? 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