<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 18, 2017, at 9:19 AM, Michel Fortin via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Great writeup. Here's a few comments about the manifesto, actors and value semantics specifically.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""># About actors and data isolation</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Can I call global functions like sin(x) in an actor? Surely you need to be able to do that. But how can the compiler know which functions are safe to use and which are out of bound for an actor?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Actors shouldn't access the global mutable state and thus should only call functions that do not access the global mutable state. We probably need a concept of a functions being pure (as in not accessing the global mutable state) for that.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""># About the part "Does a type provide proper value semantics?"</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would argue that this is the wrong question. Most types are a hybrid form of value and reference semantics. All you need is to limit what you do to what is proper value semantics and forbid the parts that use reference semantics. Otherwise you are pessimising the capabilities of the types.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For instance, has Array<UIView> value semantics? You might be tempted to say that it does not because it contains class references, but in reality that depends on what you do with those UIViews. If you treat the class references as opaque pointers (never dereferencing them), you preserve value semantics. You can count the elements, shuffle them, all without dereferencing the UIViews it contains. Value semantics only end when you dereference the class references. And even then, there are some exceptions.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I suggested a little while ago on this list some principles based on this that would allow for the compiler to enforce value semantics with a `pure` attribute and I'm currently working on a draft proposal. In essence this proposal will have pure functions guaranteeing value semantics and no access to the global state, and a correct implementation for copy-on-write types. I think this would be useful for actors.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>It’s great to hear that you’re returning to the topic of pure functions Michel! Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Le 17 août 2017 à 18:24, Chris Lattner via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">Hi all,<br class=""><br class="">As Ted mentioned in his email, it is great to finally kick off discussions for what concurrency should look like in Swift. This will surely be an epic multi-year journey, but it is more important to find the right design than to get there fast.<br class=""><br class="">I’ve been advocating for a specific model involving async/await and actors for many years now. Handwaving only goes so far, so some folks asked me to write them down to make the discussion more helpful and concrete. While I hope these ideas help push the discussion on concurrency forward, this isn’t in any way meant to cut off other directions: in fact I hope it helps give proponents of other designs a model to follow: a discussion giving extensive rationale, combined with the long term story arc to show that the features fit together.<br class=""><br class="">Anyway, here is the document, I hope it is useful, and I’d love to hear comments and suggestions for improvement:<br class=""><a href="https://gist.github.com/lattner/31ed37682ef1576b16bca1432ea9f782" class="">https://gist.github.com/lattner/31ed37682ef1576b16bca1432ea9f782</a><br class=""><br class="">-Chris<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution<br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">-- <br class="">Michel Fortin</div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="text-align: -webkit-auto;" class=""><a href="https://michelf.ca/" class="">https://michelf.ca</a></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></div></div></div>
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