<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 2, 2017, at 4:35 AM, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: AvenirNext-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 7:38 PM, Taylor Swift<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:kelvin13ma@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">kelvin13ma@gmail.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Xiaodi Wu<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:xiaodi.wu@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">xiaodi.wu@gmail.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><div dir="auto" class="">On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 13:00 Taylor Swift via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 1:51 PM, Michael Ilseman via swift-evolution<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 1, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Tino Heth via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-1917524409364692562m_-4924076454539159552m_8787000945925146662m_-949640947313699542Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" class="">So, this has been discussed before on the list many times in the past. The core team has stated that their preferred process for this is to have individuals write their own libraries, get real-world adoption, then (as consensus emerges) propose their inclusion as a core library.</div></div></blockquote></div>I already opened a new mail to write my answer, but than I thought "wait, scroll down, and look if Xiaodi did already post links" ;-)<div class="">[But where have those potential core libraries been mentioned?]</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Anyways, my perception hasn't change much:</div><div class="">I think it would be enough if someone from Apple would say "here's an empty github-repo called [math/statistics/algebra/crypt<wbr class="">o/graphic/image/audio/music/<wbr class="">video/smtp/http…]; feel free to fork and create pull requests" and adding some democratic mechanism for acceptance on top of it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></span><div class="">What would be your compatibility and stability expectations of such APIs? If there are any expectations, then the APIs would need careful design and thought. The Swift project faces a lot of design bandwidth limitations, so prioritize is always tricky.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">The point of spinning off separate core library working groups would be so that library feature requests and proposals can stop clogging up swift-evolution. Then the swift-evolution core team could focus on the compiler and the standard library and the community would take stewardship of the core libraries through separate channels.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div></span><div dir="auto" class="">My understanding is that the server working group, and all such work groups, will be presenting their proposals here for approval, and that all API changes in the Swift open source project go through this list.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></span><div class="">That sounds like it would spam the general list a lot?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On the contrary, core team members have confirmed that working proposals such as those are the principal intended use for this list; it is *not* meant to be a general forum for musings about Swift language design.</div><div class=""> </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>My rule of thumb was that any post on the mailing list that I make has to be aimed at providing a solution to a problem, or at the very least, seeking help in providing a solution to a problem. If the discussion has no definitive actionable outcome, then I consider it pointless.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: AvenirNext-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">Wouldn’t a more decentralized model mitigate the “we don’t have the energy/attention to devote to this” complaint?<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Also as a gauge of interest, I’m wondering who here would like to work on a core library if a campaign to build some was started now.<br class=""><br class=""></div><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><span class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class="">But as long as no one with enough reputation starts Swifts equivalent of boost, there won't be a set of established libraries for basic data structures and algorithms outside the stdlib.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For anyone who thinks there's no need for a standard lib that is not the stdlib, have a look at</div><div class=""><a href="https://developer.apple.com/documentation/glkit/glkquaternion-pc6" target="_blank" class="">https://developer.apple.com/do<wbr class="">cumentation/glkit/glkquaternio<wbr class="">n-pc6</a></div><div class=""><a href="https://developer.apple.com/documentation/scenekit/scnquaternion" target="_blank" class="">https://developer.apple.com/do<wbr class="">cumentation/scenekit/scnquater<wbr class="">nion</a></div><div class=""><a href="https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coremotion/cmquaternion" target="_blank" class="">https://developer.apple.com/do<wbr class="">cumentation/coremotion/cmquate<wbr class="">rnion</a></div><div class="">:-(</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Tino</div></div></span><span class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailma<wbr class="">n/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div><br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailma<wbr class="">n/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote></div></div></div>______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailma<wbr class="">n/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></blockquote></span></div></div></blockquote></span></div><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><span style="font-family: AvenirNext-Regular; 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