<div dir="ltr">On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:41 PM, Haravikk via swift-evolution <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span class=""><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 11 Jun 2017, at 22:13, Gor Gyolchanyan via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_4143376325649689018Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">I agree, this makes focusing on the right types of changes much easier and helps us avoid turning Swift into an incoherent conglomeration of random use-cases (*cough*, C#, *cough*).<div><div>Now, the question is: when will be the time to officially push the factory initializers proposal and which stage should it be targeting?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div></span><div>I think there's definitely a need for greater clarity; we could really do with better announcements on the list itself as to when the new phase begins and <b>exactly</b> what is in-scope, it also needs to be put more clearly on the swift-evolution repository.</div><div><br></div><div>Thing is; people are going to have ideas when they have them, and want to discuss them right away. I've been caught out numerous times with proposals that are almost immediately rejected as out of scope, and still have no idea when I'm supposed to resubmit them.</div><div><br></div><div>To be honest it's demoralising, as I find myself apathetic towards my own ideas as I have no idea when to revisit them, and by the time I do I've largely lost interest and moved on to other things.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think many of us who've tried our hand at getting proposals through the process have experienced the setback of a potential worthwhile idea not receiving an audience. Yet, on balance, I still think the process handles out-of-scope ideas appropriately.</div><div><br></div><div>A key question here to be answered is: is this mailing list the appropriate forum for "discussing ideas right away," whatever they might be? or is it more of a working list for bringing forward in-scope proposals in the successive forms of pitch, draft, and proposal review? As far as I can tell, the aim of scoping rules is to nudge it towards the latter, and personally I think that's quite nice in terms of bringing sanity back to my inbox as well as focus to the discussions. By contrast, I have seen blogs, Twitter, and other channels used profitably for discussing ideas right away, and personally I've found off-list communications to be the best way to prepare for the much more difficult task of convincing the discerning crowd here.</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>