<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I like the spirit of the proposal. It leaves me a bit uneasy because the practical ramifications are difficult to fully anticipate. Here follow some questions / concerns for the proposal authors.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">(Apologies if these were answered somewhere deep in a discussion thread; it’s the end of the semester and I’ve not kept up with the list.)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">• • •</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">First, have you done any systematic exploration of how impactful this rule is? The proposal states in several places that it hopes/expects violations will be rare, but is that empirical or speculative?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I tried playing around with the implications, thought I’d found a problematic example by writing an in-place Array.shuffle() method — and then was pleased to realize that the proposal already covered my example with swapAt(). In half an hour, I couldn’t come up with something the proposal disallows that it clearly should allow.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Still, the implications of a rule like this are difficult to anticipate. It would be interesting to know how many errors it flags in the Swift source compatibility suite, for example. Is that something we could do before going all-in on a fully robust implementation?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">• • •</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Second, what are the performance implications of dynamic exclusivity enforcement? Introducing overhead to something as basic as variable access seems dicey. Will it kill “C-like” performance for object properties? For closure vars? Will “accesses underway” flags add to the memory footprint of every object & every closure? You write that your “hope is that…dynamic access-tracking [will be] cheap enough to enable by default;” have you proved this out with a prototype implementation yet?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Or maybe this check is disabled in optimized builds, and I’m fussing over nothing?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Paul</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 2, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Ben Cohen <<a href="mailto:ben_cohen@apple.com" class="">ben_cohen@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><p class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin-top: 0px !important;">Hello Swift community,</p><p class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif;" class="">The review of SE-0176: "</span><font face="-apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif" class="">Enforce Exclusive Access to Memory"</font><span style="font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif;" class=""> begins now and runs through May 8, 2017.</span></p><div class=""><p class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The proposal is available here:</p><div class=""><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0176-enforce-exclusive-access-to-memory.md" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0176-enforce-exclusive-access-to-memory.md</a></div></div><div class=""><p class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Reviews are an important part of the Swift evolution process. All reviews should be sent to the swift-evolution mailing list at:</p><p class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></p><p class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">or, if you would like to keep your feedback private, directly to the review manager. </p><p class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">When replying, please try to keep the proposal link at the top of the message:</p><blockquote class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; border-left-width: 4px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); padding: 0px 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><h3 id="toc_0" class="" style="color: rgb(119, 119, 119); font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; -webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; cursor: text; position: relative; font-size: 18px;">Proposal link:</h3><div class=""><font color="#777777" face="-apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif" class=""><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0176-enforce-exclusive-access-to-memory.md" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0176-enforce-exclusive-access-to-memory.md</a></font></div><div class=""><h3 id="toc_1" class="" style="color: rgb(119, 119, 119); font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; -webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 20px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; cursor: text; position: relative; font-size: 18px;"><div class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Reply text</div><div class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br class=""></div><blockquote class="" style="font-weight: normal; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 16px; padding: 0px 1em; color: rgb(106, 115, 125); border-left-width: 0.25em; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(223, 226, 229); font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px;"><div class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Other replies</div></blockquote></h3><h5 class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 24px; margin-bottom: 16px; font-size: 0.875em; line-height: 1.25; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol';"><a id="user-content-what-goes-into-a-review-1" class="anchor" href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution#what-goes-into-a-review-1" aria-hidden="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; -webkit-text-decoration-skip: objects; color: rgb(3, 102, 214); text-decoration: none; float: left; padding-right: 4px; margin-left: -20px; line-height: 1;"><svg aria-hidden="true" class="octicon octicon-link" height="16" version="1.1" viewBox="0 0 16 16" width="16"><path fill-rule="evenodd" d="M4 9h1v1H4c-1.5 0-3-1.69-3-3.5S2.55 3 4 3h4c1.45 0 3 1.69 3 3.5 0 1.41-.91 2.72-2 3.25V8.59c.58-.45 1-1.27 1-2.09C10 5.22 8.98 4 8 4H4c-.98 0-2 1.22-2 2.5S3 9 4 9zm9-3h-1v1h1c1 0 2 1.22 2 2.5S13.98 12 13 12H9c-.98 0-2-1.22-2-2.5 0-.83.42-1.64 1-2.09V6.25c-1.09.53-2 1.84-2 3.25C6 11.31 7.55 13 9 13h4c1.45 0 3-1.69 3-3.5S14.5 6 13 6z"></path></svg></a></h5></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><h3 id="toc_2" class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 20px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; cursor: text; position: relative; font-size: 18px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">What goes into a review?</h3><p class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The goal of the review process is to improve the proposal under review through constructive criticism and, eventually, determine the direction of Swift. When writing your review, here are some questions you might want to answer in your review:</p><ul class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; padding-left: 30px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><li class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 0px;">What is your evaluation of the proposal?</li><li class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 0px;">Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?</li><li class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 0px;">Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</li><li class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 0px;">If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</li><li class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 0px;">How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</li></ul><p class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">More information about the Swift evolution process is available at:</p><p class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; margin: 15px 0px; font-family: -apple-system-body, Helvetica, arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md" class="" style="-webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; color: rgb(65, 131, 196);">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md</a></p></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks,</div><div class="">Ben Cohen</div><div class="">Review Manager</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution-announce mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution-announce@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution-announce@swift.org</a><br class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution-announce<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>