<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><br></div><div>On 11 Apr 2017, at 08:48, Tino Heth via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>-1 (strong)<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think I've read all messages and haven't much to add — so just to sum up my concerns in order:</div><div class="">— It makes access control more complicated</div><div class="">For me, it's not about the complexity itself (it's not terrible huge, after all), but I believe in the beauty of simplicity, which is already quite flawed.</div><div class="">— It adds no power to the language</div><div class="">The proposal solves no real problem, but rather encourages a certain style of programming, which is quite popular among authors of styleguides, but has no clear net gain.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>While your other points are defendable, I have to disagree here. It does bring value to a population of developers (me included) for whom that style of programming adds a lot of readability. It's part of style guides for a reason.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="">— It diminishes the need for fileprivate without making it redundant</div><div class="">It would be nice to get rid of an access level, but having four common ones and fileprivate as an exotic outlier doesn't feel right for me.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Doesn't the argument of progressive disclosure sway you here? open is already an outlier that only library authors will play with, and that's a good thing. It reduces the number of access level truly useful on a day to day basis, while leaving the others for more narrow purposes.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="">— It is a mockery for SE-0025</div><div class="">I never liked "new private", but it was decided that this sort of encapsulation is important enough to justify 33% increase in the number of access levels, so I don't like to see this watered down</div><div class="">— It is a breaking change</div><div class="">For me personally, that doesn't really count as an argument on its own, and I would gladly take the inconvenience of incompatibility in exchange for a tiny improvement of the language; but in combination with the other points, it increases opposition.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I spend some time thinking about nested extensions (which would achieve the goal of this proposal naturally) and think that SE-0169 would lead to some questionable possibilities of short-circuiting access control:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #ba2da2" class="">class</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class=""> Outer {</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(186, 45, 162);" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">private</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""> </span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">class</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""> Inner {</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(186, 45, 162);" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">private</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""> </span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">var</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""> x = </span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #272ad8" class="">0</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>}</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">}</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class=""></span><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class="">/*</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class="">.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class="">.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class="">.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class="">*/</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(79, 129, 135);" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #ba2da2" class="">extension</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""> </span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">Outer</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class="">.</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">Inner</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""> {</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; color: rgb(186, 45, 162);" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">public</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""> </span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">func</span><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures; color: #000000" class=""> f() {</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>print(x)</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>}</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">}</span></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As I read the proposal, there is no doubt that this would be allowed — but without that detailed information, I'm not sure if anybody would expect that two levels of private still is not enough to keep something secret…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Tino</div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>swift-evolution mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>