<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><br></div><div><br>On 5 Apr 2017, at 03:45, Brent Royal-Gordon <<a href="mailto:brent@architechies.com">brent@architechies.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 4, 2017, at 12:30 PM, David Hart via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra">And it throws out a major use-case of scope-based access, which is to ensure that invariants are only touched in specific places.</div></div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Is still retains most use-cases that private procured. The only capability that is not expressible in this model is to hide private members in a declaration or extension from other declarations/extensions of the same type. But it still allows hiding the member from other types in the same file, which is the most important aspect of private IMHO.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div>Well, therein lies the rub—MHO is that it's more useful to be able to hide one part of a type from other parts; YHO is that it's more useful to be able to hide one type from other types. There is no obvious reason why MHO is better or worse than YHO; there's no knock-out argument or example that produces an "a-ha!" moment. It's just a zero-sum argument about convenience, mired so deeply in personal coding styles that I'm not convinced we can ever satisfy everyone.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Very good summary of our conflicting points. But I don't believe it's a zero-sum argument. Here's why:</div><div><br></div><div>• No other language I know of allows you to hide one part of a type from other parts. How can this feature be so important we have lived without it in mainstream languages up to now?</div><div><br></div><div>• Swift's reliance on extensions for logical grouping and conformance increases the need to share between between parts of a type.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>That's why I think at this point that we should just drop it. Access control is a tar pit; let's not drown in it.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Once I get all this agreed upon, I'll pick up a pen</div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>And introduce a motion never to discuss this again<br class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=""><div style="font-size: 12px; " class="">-- </div><div style="font-size: 12px; " class="">Brent Royal-Gordon</div><div style="font-size: 12px; " class="">Architechies</div></div></span>
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