<div dir="ltr"><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,blinkmacsystemfont,'segoe ui',helvetica,arial,sans-serif,'apple color emoji','segoe ui emoji','segoe ui symbol';font-size:16px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box">What is your evaluation of the proposal?</li></ul><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3">+1</font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3"><br></font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3">I'm generally a proponent of scoped access control and have been torn over this proposal. What finally pushed me over the edge has been the time I've taken to review others code. I've got a team of about 32 iOS developers and their code shows a heavy lean toward using 'fileprivate' over 'private'. When I dig into it to determine why, the most common response has been something along the lines of "I'm not sure what the difference is". In at least one case, the developer said "well, I usually try 'private' until it won't compile, then I just change things to 'fileprivate'". Granted this is an education and training issue, but with other languages the primary access modifiers are pretty easy to understand. Intermixing scoped access vs file based protections seems to cause unneeded confusion that I suspect was increased after running the migrator.</font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3"><br></font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3">I like elegance and I like the compiler catching things for me, but at the end of the day I'd rather see things simple and easy to understand and explain. To that end, I'd prefer to revert to the previous behavior while we decide on a comprehensive solution based on the learnings from this effort. </font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3"><br></font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3"><br></font></div><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,blinkmacsystemfont,'segoe ui',helvetica,arial,sans-serif,'apple color emoji','segoe ui emoji','segoe ui symbol';font-size:16px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em">Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?</li></ul><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3">Yes.</font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3"><br></font></div><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,blinkmacsystemfont,'segoe ui',helvetica,arial,sans-serif,'apple color emoji','segoe ui emoji','segoe ui symbol';font-size:16px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em">Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</li></ul><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3">Yes. Increased simplicity reduces overall cognitive load on the developer.</font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3"><br></font></div><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,blinkmacsystemfont,'segoe ui',helvetica,arial,sans-serif,'apple color emoji','segoe ui emoji','segoe ui symbol';font-size:16px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em">If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</li></ul><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3">The access control modifiers in Swift are somewhat different than most other languages I've used, so a comparison between C# or Java seems forced.</font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3"><br></font></div><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,blinkmacsystemfont,'segoe ui',helvetica,arial,sans-serif,'apple color emoji','segoe ui emoji','segoe ui symbol';font-size:16px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em">How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</li></ul><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3">Several hours, both reviewing internal affected code, the proposal, and these discussions.</font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3"><br></font></div><div><font color="#24292e" face="-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol" size="3">rob.</font></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:54 PM, Douglas Gregor <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dgregor@apple.com" target="_blank">dgregor@apple.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Hello Swift community,</p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The review of SE-0159 "Fix Private Access Levels" begins now and runs through March 27, 2017. The proposal is available here:</p><blockquote style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 1em;border-left-width:0.25em;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(223,226,229);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font color="#6a737d" face="-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol" size="3"><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0159-fix-private-access-levels.md" target="_blank">https://github.com/apple/<wbr>swift-evolution/blob/master/<wbr>proposals/0159-fix-private-<wbr>access-levels.md</a></font></div></blockquote><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Reviews are an important part of the Swift evolution process. All reviews should be sent to the swift-evolution mailing list at</p><blockquote style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(106,115,125);border-left-width:0.25em;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(223,226,229);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/swift-<wbr>evolution</a></div></blockquote><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">or, if you would like to keep your feedback private, directly to the review manager. When replying, please try to keep the proposal link at the top of the message:</p><blockquote style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 1em;border-left-width:0.25em;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(223,226,229);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><p style="color:rgb(106,115,125);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px">Proposal link:</p><blockquote style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px 1em;border-left-width:0.25em;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(223,226,229)"><div style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font color="#6a737d" face="-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol" size="3"><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0159-fix-private-access-levels.md" target="_blank">https://github.com/apple/<wbr>swift-evolution/blob/master/<wbr>proposals/0159-fix-private-<wbr>access-levels.md</a></font></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(106,115,125);border-left-width:0.25em;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(223,226,229);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Reply text</div></blockquote><blockquote style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(106,115,125);border-left-width:0.25em;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(223,226,229);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><blockquote style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px 1em;border-left-width:0.25em;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(223,226,229)"><div style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Other replies</div></blockquote></blockquote><h5 style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:0.875em;line-height:1.25;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a id="m_-4083957455287721074user-content-what-goes-into-a-review-1" class="m_-4083957455287721074anchor" href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md#what-goes-into-a-review-1" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1" target="_blank"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></a>What goes into a review?</h5><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The goal of the review process is to improve the proposal under review through constructive criticism and, eventually, determine the direction of Swift. When writing your review, here are some questions you might want to answer in your review:</p><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><li style="box-sizing:border-box">What is your evaluation of the proposal?</li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em">Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?</li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em">Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em">If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em">How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</li></ul><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">More information about the Swift evolution process is available at</p><blockquote style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(106,115,125);border-left-width:0.25em;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(223,226,229);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(3,102,214);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">https://github.com/apple/<wbr>swift-evolution/blob/master/<wbr>process.md</a></div></blockquote><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Thank you,</p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">-Doug</p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Review Manager</p></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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