<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 21, 2017, at 6:43 PM, Jose Cheyo Jimenez <<a href="mailto:cheyo@masters3d.com" class="">cheyo@masters3d.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">On Mar 21, 2017, at 1:10 AM, Charlie Monroe via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 21, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Slava Pestov <<a href="mailto:spestov@apple.com" class="">spestov@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">On Mar 20, 2017, at 11:07 PM, Charlie Monroe via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">-1 on this as well for similar reasons. Places where I use fileprivate (aside from what was automatically migrated by Xcode) can be counted on fingers of one or two hands. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I feel that this proposal is reverting something without offering an alternative solution.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>In what situations do you use Swift 3 private where fileprivate is not an acceptable replacement?</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">In my usage, I very rarely use fileprivate. To back this with numbers, a recent project I developed (i.e. without Xcode's automatic migration of private -> fileprivate; about 6KLOC) has<b class=""> 2 uses of "fileprivate" and 160 uses of "private”.</b></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Do you have a way to tell how much of the private is effectible fileprivate? (top level private usage)</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Yes, 19 cases (out of those 160). Mostly for private classes or identifiers/constants.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>In another project (a framework I use in all my projects):</div><div><br class=""></div><div>private (total): 335</div><div>top-level private: 65 (out of those 335)</div><div>fileprivate: 41</div><div><br class=""></div><div>And I know about a place or two that's not properly written and if I refactored it properly, I'd get rid of another 20 fileprivates.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>In my experience (for me - please don't take it as if I am judging anyone - not at all), the use of fileprivate indicates either improper public API (and by public I mean even internal - exposed out of the file); or that there could be other mechanisms for handling this (protected scope for subclasses/enclosing types).</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is definitely a personal opinion, but I tend to limit access to members as much as possible to discourage/prevent their usage out of the scope they are intended for and to better design API that should be used out of the scope (public/internal). I feel this is a good thing for newcomers to a codebase (and myself coming back to a codebase after a year or two) as Xcode's autocompletion won't offer members that are not supposed to be called out of the scope (scope-private). </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As I've mentioned this during the discussion, I feel that current state of things encourages huge files (1000+ lines of code) as you can't define "protected" level access and migrate some of the code that implements e.g. accessibility to a different file without potentially exposing internal details to the rest of the module (if the extension in the other file needs access to private details, which is often the case).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I feel that if there should be a change to the access levels, it should address this as well. The current solution based on reverting the original proposal only unnecessarily exposes implementational details to the rest of the file - at least in my codebase.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Slava</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 10px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 21, 2017, at 3:33 AM, Greg Parker via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 20, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Douglas Gregor <<a href="mailto:dgregor@apple.com" class="">dgregor@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><p class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Hello Swift community,</p><p class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The review of SE-0159 "Fix Private Access Levels" begins now and runs through March 27, 2017. The proposal is available here:</p><blockquote class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 16px; padding: 0px 1em; border-left-width: 0.25em; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(223, 226, 229); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><font color="#6a737d" face="-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol" size="3" class=""><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0159-fix-private-access-levels.md" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0159-fix-private-access-levels.md</a></font></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class="">-1. I yield the remainder of my time to Drew Crawford who satisfactorily explained my concerns.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-- </div><div class="">Greg Parker <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gparker@apple.com" class="">gparker@apple.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> Runtime Wrangler</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>