<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 20, 2017, at 5:54 PM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Hello Swift community,</p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">The review of SE-0159 "Fix Private Access Levels" begins now and runs through March 27, 2017. The proposal is available here:</p><blockquote style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 16px; padding: 0px 1em; border-left-width: 0.25em; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(223, 226, 229); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><font color="#6a737d" face="-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol" size="3" class=""><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0159-fix-private-access-levels.md" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0159-fix-private-access-levels.md</a></font></div></blockquote><ul style="box-sizing: border-box; padding-left: 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">What is your evaluation of the proposal?</li></ul></div></div></blockquote>I’m conflicted. This is generally better than the current state, but I worry that we may want to change access levels in an incompatible way yet again in the future.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>The problem isn’t with private as defined today, but that there is a desire for access control levels in between private and internal. </div><div><br class=""></div><div>My opinion - the biggest issue with fileprivate is that it is close enough to not have a clear distinction of *why* a developer would choose fileprivate over private - the distinction is left meaningless unless defined for the project as part of coding standards.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>In many languages, a scoped “private" has a clear meaning - protecting methods and state which could cause an external party to misuse the type - break class invariants, break threading model, and so on.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>The reverted “private” does not have that meaning - extensions and other types within the same file have the ability to misuse the type to break all the above.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>For that reason, I think it is important in evaluation to decide just how important a scoped “private” protecting type internal code. If it is important, I’d recommend deferring making this change, and instead shoot for a future where ‘private' remains the same but ‘fileprivate’ is replaced with something more powerful.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><ul style="box-sizing: border-box; padding-left: 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><li style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0.25em;" class="">Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?</li></ul></div></div></blockquote>Yes</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><ul style="box-sizing: border-box; padding-left: 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><li style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0.25em;" class="">Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>As stated in the evaluation above, I believe this is dependent on whether submodules, multi-module frameworks, or friend access will modify access control in the future. In that case, I worry that we would actually prefer having the scoped private in concert with the new access modifiers, and would recommend deferring change.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><ul style="box-sizing: border-box; padding-left: 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><li style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0.25em;" class="">How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div>In-depth study/lots of arguing and use of the existing (and Swift 2) system</div><div><br class=""></div><div>-DW</div></div></body></html>