<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Le 15 févr. 2017 à 08:05, David Hart via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=""><br class="">Sent from my iPhone</div>On 15 Feb 2017, at 06:31, Chris Lattner <<a href="mailto:sabre@nondot.org" class="">sabre@nondot.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 14, 2017, at 3:20 AM, David Hart <<a href="mailto:david@hartbit.com" class="">david@hartbit.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On 14 Feb 2017, at 09:25, Goffredo Marocchi <<a href="mailto:panajev@gmail.com" class="">panajev@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">I disagree with that as well as I still think we are damaging the language each time we take a known concept (like access levels) and give new meanings to the same keywords. I still look baffled at the redefinition of do and the addition of repeat for example...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Private, the way it was before, was an admittedly curious take on how most languages mean by private and we have jumped through a lot of hoops to justify why we did not start with Java/C++/C# like access control and augmented it instead of redefining things, omitting others, and then constantly pulling the language left and right with not a lot of permanent consensus either way as this discussion and others before show.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It's a curious take, but it is a curious take is perfectly coherent with Swift extensions. How else would you access private implementation details from an extension? But putting it in the same file, instead of having to resort to an internal access level.</div></div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div class="">Right. Swift is its own language distinct from Java/C++/etc. While it is intentionally designed to remain familiar (and thus reuses many keywords across the language family), it often does so with slightly different meaning / behavior. Consider ‘throw’ for example.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Keeping with the spirit of Swift and staying consistent with its design, I see two plausible meanings for private:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Private could mean either:</div><div class="">1) private to the file (Swift 2 semantics)</div><div class="">2) accessible only to the current type/scope and to extensions to that type that are in the current file.</div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">I think (2) is worth discussing. My 2 cents:</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><b class="">Pros</b></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">• Solves a high percentage of use cases of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">fileprivate</b></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">• Type-scope proponents retain some of the safety</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><b class="">Cons</b></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">• Less straight forward to explain</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">• Access to different type/scope in same file not possible anymore</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Which means that if we choose 2, we must keep fileprivate.</div><div>Being able to access other type private members in the same file is an important feature that can’t be easily replaced, so it would badely break existing code if we remove it.</div></div><br class=""></body></html>