<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div><br></div><div><br>On Feb 2, 2017, at 9:56 PM, Erica Sadun <<a href="mailto:erica@ericasadun.com">erica@ericasadun.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 2, 2017, at 10:29 PM, Ted kremenek <<a href="mailto:kremenek@apple.com" class="">kremenek@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="">On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:36 PM, Karl Wagner <<a href="mailto:razielim@gmail.com" class="">razielim@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 3 Feb 2017, at 02:55, Ted kremenek <<a href="mailto:kremenek@apple.com" class="">kremenek@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class="">On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Karl Wagner via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Personally I think that's an absurd reason not to move to a forum. What is your complaint? That it's _too_ inclusive? That others only have trivial things to say? Frankly, every way I try to interpret your comment makes it come off as snobbery.</div></blockquote><br class=""><div class="">Hi Karl,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I appreciate your candor here, but let's avoid making these comments sound personal. This is a thread prompting polarized opinions, and most of it has been civil and productive. Let's keep it that way. I do respect that you are anxious to see progress on the resolution of the topic, but these same points could be made in a less antagonistic way.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I encourage all of you to re-read this part of the Code of Conduction on<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://swift.org/" class="">Swift.org</a>:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><p class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.5em; padding: 0px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include:</span></p><ul class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 1em 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 40px; list-style-position: initial; list-style-image: initial;"><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">The use of sexualized language or imagery</span></li><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Personal attacks</span></li><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Trolling or insulting/derogatory comments</span></li><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Public or private harassment</span></li><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Publishing other’s private information, such as physical or electronic addresses, without explicit permission</span></li><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Other unethical or unprofessional conduct</span></li></ul><p class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.5em; padding: 0px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Project maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or reject comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other contributions that are not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban temporarily or permanently any contributor for other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful.</span></p></blockquote>Thank you,</div><div class="">Ted</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div class="">As I explained to Erica, it isn’t meant to be read personally. What I said is that the community should be as inclusive as possible and that prejudicing certain opinions as “trivial” conceptually runs against that.</div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">I appreciate that perspective — and I personally agree with that point. My cautionary statement — which was also directed at others on the thread — was to ensure that the thread remains amicable, and that our choice of our words match our intentions as the arguments become potentially polarized.</div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div>"Trivial" describes the briefness of the response and *not* the quality of opinions. Quick back and forth comments that fit well on forums can produce an explosion of emails. Moving to a forum that supports email mirroring does not produce the same experience for those using mail clients. </div><div><br class=""></div><div>-- E</div></div></blockquote><br><div>I agree with you that moving to a forum that supports email mirroring will not produce the same experience for those using mail clients. The question to me is not whether they are different, but what impact that difference will have in practice — and whether that difference, even if it is slightly negative, is the right tradeoff. Some of that is hard to predict, as it comes down somewhat to how participation on a swift-evolution forum would be in practice.</div></body></html>