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.error { color:#AA0000; }</style></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="bloop_markdown"><p>First of all, thank you for writing the formal proposal. </p>
<p>To begin with, I’d like to remember you that type nesting is not only done through nesting types directly in concrete types. A commonly used pattern to reduce clustering is nesting inside extensions:</p>
<pre><code class="swift">extension TypeName {
class InnerTypeName { … }
}
</code></pre>
<p>Next up:</p>
<pre><code class="swift">protocol Outer {
protocol Inner {
associatedtype Huh // why would you do this?
}
}
</code></pre>
<p>I disagree with this: why would you want to restrict this?</p>
<p>The Outer protocol might be simple by the inner protocol is not. If you’d move the <code>associatedtype Huh</code> into <code>Outer</code> protocol you’d automatically break the intended simplicity of the <code>Outer</code> protocol.</p>
<p>The following example is kept simple just to show that the outer protocol is in our case intended to be simple where the inner is not. </p>
<pre><code class="swift">protocol Building {
protocol Room {
associatedtype Person
}
var numberOfRooms: Int { get }
}
struct Pupil {}
struct Student {}
struct University : Building {
let numberOfRooms: Int = 1000
struct Room : Building.Room {
typealias Person = Student
}
}
struct School : Building {
let numberOfRooms: Int = 100
struct Room : Building.Room {
typealias Person = Pupil
}
}
let buildings: [Building] = [University(), School()] // fine because `Building` is simple
</code></pre>
<p>The inner types in this example are different from each other, but this wasn’t the main point anyways.</p>
<p>Unless this restriction would have other technical reasons than “It is hard to think of a valid reason why a nested protocol might want to be more generic than its parent”, I’m against it.</p>
<p>At the very beginning I said that nesting is also done through extensions. Let’s rewrite the above example from your draft that way and see what we good.</p>
<pre><code class="swift">protocol Outer {} // Simple
extension Outer {
// Complex
protocol Inner {
associatedtype Huh // why would you do this?
}
}
// new name spacing `Outer.Inner`
</code></pre>
<p>From this perspective it’s much clearer now that the <code>Outer</code> protocol type in out case is intended to be simple.</p>
<hr>
<p>About <code>associatedtype</code>s with extensions:</p>
<p>In Swift 3.0 this code compiles:</p>
<pre><code class="swift">public class Class {}
public protocol Outer {
associatedtype AAA : Class
}
extension Outer {
public typealias AAA = Int
}
</code></pre>
<p>This does mean that the associatedtype is lost in extensions and can be reused as an inner type for nesting. This also means that the inner type wouldn’t be able to capture the associatedtype from the outer type and might be simple.</p>
<pre><code class="swift">protocol Outer {
associatedtype AAA
}
extension Outer {
protocol Inner {} // Simple because nesting from within extensions seems to ignore the associatedtype from the `Outer` type
}
</code></pre>
<p>You can compare this to todays workarounds where you only want to create a nice name space but want to keep the inner type simple.</p>
<pre><code class="swift">// Implementation artifact
protocol _Inner {} // simple
// Complex
protocol Outer {
associatedtype Anything
}
extension Outer {
typealias Inner = _Inner
}
// Free to use `Outer.Inner`
</code></pre>
<p></p></div><div class="bloop_original_html"><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div> <br> <div id="bloop_sign_1477121523501244928" class="bloop_sign"><div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px">-- <br>Adrian Zubarev<br>Sent with Airmail</div></div> <br><p class="airmail_on">Am 22. Oktober 2016 um 04:18:25, Karl (<a href="mailto:razielim@gmail.com">razielim@gmail.com</a>) schrieb:</p> <blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div></div><div>
<title></title>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 22 Oct 2016, at 04:12, Karl <<a href="mailto:raziel.im+swift-evo@gmail.com" class="">raziel.im+swift-evo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 22 Oct 2016, at 04:07, Karl <<a href="mailto:raziel.im+swift-evo@gmail.com" class="">raziel.im+swift-evo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 22 Oct 2016, at 04:02, Braeden Profile
<<a href="mailto:jhaezhyr12@gmail.com" class="">jhaezhyr12@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">But what would that mean? If I reference
`ProtocolName.InnerType`, that doesn’t always have meaning.
In fact, if you have two different extensions where
AssociatedType equals something else, there’s a type ambiguity from
other code. I suspect it would only work if that InnerType
was mandated to be `private`.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">You would need a reference to a (ProtocolName where
AssociatedType == Int), which you can get either from a `self`
inside the extension or from a generic parameter:</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">struct MyValue<T> : ProtocolName { typealias
AssociatedType = T }</div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">let _ = MyValue<Int>().InnerType()</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
No, wait - sorry, that’s wrong. I got confused for a second. You’re
right; it would have to be a private type.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class=""></div>
<div>Actually I think I take that back (I was just writing, lots of
snippets floating around my head) - ProtocolName is a generic
protocol, so types inside of it would become types on the concrete
conformers. That’s consistent with the Editor.Delegate example in
the draft proposal I linked to.</div>
<div><br class=""></div>
<div>So MyValue<Int>.InnerType would exist 👍
ProtocolName.InnerType isn’t really very meaningful
otherwise.</div>
<div><br class=""></div>
<div>- Karl</div>
<div><br class=""></div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 17, 2016, at 12:44 PM, Adrian Zubarev via
swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="bloop_markdown" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);">
<p style="margin: 15px 0px; -webkit-margin-before: 0px;" class="">
That option should not be disallowed. Here is a simple example you
might want to build at some point:</p>
<pre style="margin: 15px 0px; font-family: Menlo, Consolas, 'Liberation Mono', Courier, monospace; font-size: 10pt; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); color: inherit; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); overflow: auto; padding: 4px 8px; word-break: normal; word-wrap: normal;" class=""><code class="swift" style="font-family: Menlo, Consolas, 'Liberation Mono', Courier, monospace; font-size: 10pt; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); color: inherit; border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; word-break: normal; word-wrap: normal; -webkit-margin-before: 0px;">protocol ProtocolName {
associatedtype AssociatedType
}
extension ProtocolName where AssociatedType == Int {
struct InnerType {}
}
</code></pre>
<div style="margin: 15px 0px;" class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div class="bloop_original_html" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);">
<div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; margin: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div>
<br class="">
<div id="bloop_sign_1476729773673214976" class="bloop_sign">
<div style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 13px;" class="">-- <br class="">
Adrian Zubarev<br class="">
Sent with Airmail</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<p class="airmail_on" style="margin: 15px 0px;">Am 17. Oktober 2016
um 20:30:58, Karl via swift-evolution (<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="color: rgb(65, 131, 196); background-color: inherit; text-decoration: none;" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>) schrieb:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq" style="margin: 15px 0px;">
<div class="">
<blockquote class="clean_bq" style="margin: 15px 0px; font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div class="" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">Is your vision that each conforming type would have to
provide its own nested type as specified by the
protocol?</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">Or could the protocol itself define a nested type and
anything could use it?</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">protocol FloatingPoint: … {</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> enum RoundingRule {</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> // Do I put an implementation
here?</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> }</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">}<br class=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">No, types which are defined inside the protocol are implemented
there. Providing your own types to satisfy a conformance is what
associated types are for.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">If you wanted something like that, you could do it with a nested
protocol + associated type:</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">protocol FloatingPoint {</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> protocol _RoundingRule { func round(_ : Super)
-> Super }</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> associatedType RoundingRule :
_RoundingRule</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">}</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">struct Float : FloatingPoint {</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> enum RoundingRule : _RoundingRule {</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> func round(_ val: Float) -> Float
{</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> /* switch self,
perform rounding… */ </span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> }</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> }</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">}</span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="font-family: 'helvetica Neue', helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">That brings up an interesting point, though - we would need a
way to refer to the outer protocol (I used “Super”
here).</span></div>
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