<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hi David, thanks for your explanation, most things are understandable. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">However, I am challenged by all this to study this subject more in detail</div><div class="">and come back with it later at a more convenient time. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">After all those years, now I have time for this to go in-depth, wait and see.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Met vriendelijke groeten</div><div class="">TedvG</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 12 Oct 2016, at 23:38, David Hart <<a href="mailto:david@hartbit.com" class="">david@hartbit.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Hi Ted,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My replies inline:</div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 12 Oct 2016, at 22:37, Ted F.A. van Gaalen <<a href="mailto:tedvgiosdev@gmail.com" class="">tedvgiosdev@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi David,<div class=""><br class=""><div class="">Thanks for your reply., OK, I think I understand. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It then is a capacity problem, right?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Mainly. We lived through a few months where there was very little focus, and everybody brought up all kind of ideas. It was great, but it was also very chaotic. Many proposals were accepted, but the implementation for them was a rush and a few couldn’t make it in the final release of Swift 3.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think the decision of focusing releases is to improve the evolution process by trying to make sure we set the right priorities and to make them attainable. For example, if we do not focus on ABI stability, Swift 4 will not be able to set the ABI in stone, which would disappoint many many people.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">In effect, it means restricting people from bringing perhaps very valuable </div><div class="">(not necessarily my contributions) </div><div class="">and essential ideas forward, which could play a crucial role improving Swift.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Not necessarily restrict. But politely ask them to keep a hold of those ideas until a more appropriate phase of Swift’s development allows those kind of proposals.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class="">I think this is a very negative aspect. surely bouncing creative people away,</div><div class="">dropping their efforts and interest here altogether. </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We try to be as kind and positive as possible as not to bounce create ideas away. But I think it is also important that we explain the priorities of the evolution process through time so Swift can move forward.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class="">The question then remains, where / when / how can one bring topics </div><div class="">that are taking a longer stretch and are not bound to a certain release of Swift,</div><div class="">seemingly “outside” of this restriction under attention?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It all depends on the focus at the time. For example, the swift evolution README states that phase 2 of Swift 4 will allow new features to be discussed and implemented:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><i class="">Stage 2 will commence once the implementation work on the Stage 1 features is cresting, and can contain a few other large and small features. We expect that stage 2 will commence some time in Spring 2017.</i></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class="">if swift evolution is (currently? ) not open for new ideas/topics:</div><div class="">I thought that was the primary purpose of Swift evolution?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The purpose of Swift evolution as I understand it is to bring ideas, proposals and discuss them to push Swift forward in line with the project priorities at the time. You can, for example, bring new features and topics forward now, but they need to concern ABI stability. For example, we are looking at the remaining Generics features which will allow the Standard Library to take its final form.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">David.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Kind Regards</div><div class="">Ted</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 12 Oct 2016, at 21:48, David Hart <<a href="mailto:david@hartbit.com" class="">david@hartbit.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Hello Ted,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please try to understand. As Xiaodi and others have said a few times, it has nothing to do with the topic being important or interesting. The current phase of Swift 4’s development does not allow any extensive discussion or review on topics which do not impact ABI stability:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><i class="">Stage 1 focuses on the essentials required for source and ABI stability. Features that don't fundamentally change the ABI of existing language features or imply an ABI-breaking change to the standard library will not be considered in this stage.</i></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 12 Oct 2016, at 19:14, Ted F.A. van Gaalen via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Apart from my perhaps fierce reaction, I am not aware of doing something wrong.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">and I still find this topic very important. </div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">David.</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>