<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 4:00 AM, Karl via swift-evolution <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">It’s one of those issues where everybody agrees we could do better but nobody cares enough to do anything about it.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>No, I think if you read this thread (and the others) I think you'll find that not everyone agrees. Many are in favor, myself included, but it's definitely not unanimous.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><br></div><div>In any case I think Discourse seemed to be the only real option because of mailing-list support. So I suppose they next step would be to submit a formal proposal to swift-evo on GitHub?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Is swift-evolution actually the right place for this conversation? I'm not sure; it's not a language change that would have to coincide with one of the Swift releases (3.0.1, 3.1, etc.).</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 7 Oct 2016, at 20:44, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div class="m_-1134808230769202072bloop_markdown" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(254,254,254)"><p style="margin:15px 0px">What happened to that talk? Were any decisions made internally? Any news?</p><div style="margin:15px 0px"><br class="m_-1134808230769202072webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><div class="m_-1134808230769202072bloop_original_html" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(254,254,254)"><div id="m_-1134808230769202072bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><br></div><br><div id="m_-1134808230769202072bloop_sign_1475865769672791040" class="m_-1134808230769202072bloop_sign"><div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px">-- <br>Adrian Zubarev<br>Sent with Airmail</div></div><br><p class="m_-1134808230769202072airmail_on" style="margin:15px 0px">Am 21. August 2016 um 17:36:53, Michie via swift-evolution (<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="color:rgb(65,131,196);background-color:inherit;text-decoration:none" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>) schrieb:</p><blockquote type="cite" class="m_-1134808230769202072clean_bq" style="margin:15px 0px"><span style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><div><div></div><div>Incase, the Swift team decided to use a forum.<br><br>I would like to suggest Discourse (<a href="http://www.discourse.org/" style="color:rgb(65,131,196);background-color:inherit;text-decoration:none" target="_blank">http://www.discourse.org</a>).<br>It is one of the most reliable open-source made forum and most<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>companies have been using it as their forum/community eg. Dockers,<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Let's Encrypt, etc...<br><br>The Swift Team has a choice to host it on their own or pay<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><a href="http://discourse.org/" style="color:rgb(65,131,196);background-color:inherit;text-decoration:none" target="_blank">discourse.org</a><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span>to host it for you. Hosting on their own would be more<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>cheaper and gives you more control on how you want it to be set up. We<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>can easily set up a mailing list to all the people watching the<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>discussion and you can add in your own style of Authentication if<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>needed.<br><br>Slack will be very expensive because Slack cost almost $7 per active<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>member per month. If you don't pay, it will definitely be limiting.<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Also, I don't think using chat for this kind of project will be more<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>productive as people need to revisit some discussions.<br><br>I can help the Swift Team set up Discourse if they are interested and<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>they can create a subdomain:<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://community.swift.org/" style="color:rgb(65,131,196);background-color:inherit;text-decoration:none" target="_blank">https://community.<wbr>swift.org</a><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span>for it.<br><br>Let me know.<br><br>Michie :)<br><br>Quoting Sean Alling via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="color:rgb(65,131,196);background-color:inherit;text-decoration:none" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>:<br><br>> +1<br>><br>> I think this is a great idea! The use of a mailing list is<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> manageable for a small (2-10) groups but doesn’t scale to the size<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> and frequency of comments/replies that the Swift Open Source project<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> has seen thus far. Not to mention, it reeks of 1996.<br>><br>> I’m not sure if we should authenticate users via AppleID, because we<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> want the Swift community to remain cross-platform going forward.<br>><br>> A Slack would be a great idea, for banter but may get crazy. We<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> would want the slack channels to remain subject pure (i.e., no<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> shenanigans). Email is good in this regard in that a reply is<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> expensive and therefore on-topic, whereas slack replies are cheap<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> and therefore easily off topic. Anyone have any idea to combat that?<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Code of Conduct?<br>><br>> I think in making this decision we should separate the determination<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> that the mailing lists are posing too great a burden at our scale<span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="m_-1134808230769202072Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> from the selection of what we should use in its stead.<br>><br>> - Sean<br>><br>><br>>> I think this thread should focus on the mailing list vs forum, Slack is<br>>> not a forum. It could be nice to have it as an extra if we need it.<br>>><br>>> It looks to me that all benefits of a mailing list can be achieved by a<br>>> forum system with excellent support to read and reply using emails. But<br>>> the opposite is not true, one single simple example: we can't even link<br>>> related thread using email (as Tino mentioned on the Gmane thread).<br>>><br>>><br>>><br><br><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>swift-evolution mailing list<br><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="color:rgb(65,131,196);background-color:inherit;text-decoration:none" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="color:rgb(65,131,196);background-color:inherit;text-decoration:none" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/swift-<wbr>evolution</a><br></div></div></span></blockquote></div><div class="m_-1134808230769202072bloop_markdown" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(254,254,254)"><div style="margin:15px 0px"><br class="m_-1134808230769202072webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(254,254,254);float:none;display:inline!important">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(254,254,254)"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(254,254,254);float:none;display:inline!important">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(254,254,254)"><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="color:rgb(65,131,196);background-color:rgb(254,254,254);text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(254,254,254)"><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="color:rgb(65,131,196);background-color:rgb(254,254,254);text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/swift-<wbr>evolution</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(254,254,254)"></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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