<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Taras,<div class=""><br class=""><div class="">There’s more than enough evidence in the whole programming world</div><div class="">to justify the existence of the classical for loop, also in Swift!</div><div class="">Not only in “old” languages, for instance, take a look in Go. </div><div class="">Excellent implementation there of the for;;</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://tour.golang.org/flowcontrol/1" class="">https://tour.golang.org/flowcontrol/1</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Btw, to me, It’s not a matter of “defeat” or “winning”.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am not the only person preferring the for;; to stay.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’ve also written about other things, like comma less parameter list etc.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">But I will not continue this discussion right now and wait til August.</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Kind Regards</div><div class="">TedvG</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 29.07.2016, at 00:30, Taras Zakharko <<a href="mailto:taras.zakharko@uzh.ch" class="">taras.zakharko@uzh.ch</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 29 Jul 2016, at 00:21, Saagar Jha via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">The reason C-style for loops were removed were because most of the time they could be represented by Swift syntax. Have you taken a look at stride(from:to:by:)?</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote>Yes I did. <br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A minor correction: it should be ‚all of the time‘ :) Iterator-based loops are a strict superset of the for(;;) loop.</div></div></div></div></blockquote>No. the for;; is much more versatile and easier to use, but I’v already wrote much about this. <br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Anyway, we have discussed this extensively in the past, Ted is the only person who’s still keeps stubbornly hacking on this topic and so far he has failed to produce any convincing evidence in favour of the for(;;) loop.</div></div></div></div></blockquote>Please read it again.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""> Its time to either accept defeat or produce some new material to discuss. Austin is absolutely right that repeating same things only makes this already huge list even bigger and less digestible. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best, </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> T. </div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Saagar Jha<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></div>
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<br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 28, 2016, at 15:08, Ted F.A. van Gaalen via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: SFUIText-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Hi Austin,</div><div class="" style="font-family: SFUIText-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: SFUIText-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="">please read inline.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 28.07.2016, at 23:47, Austin Zheng <<a href="mailto:austinzheng@gmail.com" class="">austinzheng@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Ted F.A. van Gaalen<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:tedvgiosdev@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">tedvgiosdev@gmail.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;">Hi Austin, thank you, please see inline<div class=""><div class="">? </div>I have explained this many times before, didn’t I? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Its removal causes a very crucial limitation/change in the way </div><div class="">one writes programs, So writing about this for;; subject is</div><div class="">very, very different from long discussions like those about </div><div class="">allowing a comma at the end of a list or not…</div><div class="">because removing the for;; has a very heavy impact.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Furthermore, IMHO the decision to remove the for;; was based</div><div class="">on very subjective loose and partly irrelevant criteria.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don't care how good your reasons are, the fact of the matter is that it was extensively discussed, a decision was made, and it is now a done deal.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote>Napoleon said something similar when pushing his army towards Moscow...<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">Please remember that these are high-traffic lists that many people subscribe to; complaining about the C for loop is a waste of everybody's time.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote>That’s your opinion.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">At the very least, please respect the process and put together a proposal that we can all discuss,</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="">As written before, I will write the proposal after Swift 3.0 is released.</div><div class="">If you are interested in bringing it back then you could help</div><div class="">me with it.</div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">instead of asking Chris or whoever to step in and make an exception because you don't like it.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote>Yes, indeed, I am exceptionally asking to make an exception, to keep the for ;; in<div class="">for the time being.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As concerning your “high traffic” notion, this is written material</div><div class="">no doubt, the recipients are capable enough to put it aside for later</div><div class="">if they’d wish to do so. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">Sorry, if you don’t like it.</div><div class="">Thanks.</div><div class="">TedvG</div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""></div><span style="font-family: SFUIText-Regular; 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