<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 16, 2016, at 11:03 AM, T.J. Usiyan <<a href="mailto:griotspeak@gmail.com" class="">griotspeak@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px" class=""><code style="font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Menlo,Courier,monospace;font-size:14px;padding:0.2em 0px;margin:0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.0392157);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-top-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px" class="">"open</code> is invalid on declarations that are not also <code style="font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Menlo,Courier,monospace;font-size:14px;padding:0.2em 0px;margin:0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.0392157);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-top-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px" class="">public</code> (see the Alternatives discussion for rationale)."</p></div><div class="">+</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>"<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px" class="">If an </span><code style="font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Menlo,Courier,monospace;font-size:14px;padding:0.2em 0px;margin:0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.0392157);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-top-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="">open</code><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px" class=""> class inherits an </span><code style="font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Menlo,Courier,monospace;font-size:14px;padding:0.2em 0px;margin:0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.0392157);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-top-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="">open</code><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px" class=""> method from a superclass, that method remains </span><code style="font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Menlo,Courier,monospace;font-size:14px;padding:0.2em 0px;margin:0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.0392157);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-top-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="">open</code><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px" class="">. If it overrides an </span><code style="font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Menlo,Courier,monospace;font-size:14px;padding:0.2em 0px;margin:0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.0392157);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-top-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="">open</code><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px" class=""> method from a superclass, the override is implicitly </span><code style="font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Menlo,Courier,monospace;font-size:14px;padding:0.2em 0px;margin:0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.0392157);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-top-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="">open</code><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px" class=""> if it is not </span><code style="font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Menlo,Courier,monospace;font-size:14px;padding:0.2em 0px;margin:0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.0392157);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-top-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="">final</code><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,'Segoe UI',Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px" class="">.</span>"<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I understand that the intent is probably not to say that subclasses are public by default. My point is that those two statements, without an explicit spelling out of the implicit access level, could lead me to believe that subclasses are implicitly public by default. It is open to interpretation. Neither the prose nor the code examples address it.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I see your general point. I'll think about how to re-word this; it may be sufficient to just remove the requirement that open methods appear in open classes. Suffice it for me to say now, officially, that this proposal does not require classes to be public or open just because they override open methods from an open superclass.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>John.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 1:35 PM, John McCall <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:rjmccall@apple.com" target="_blank" class="">rjmccall@apple.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><span class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 16, 2016, at 9:32 AM, Matthew Johnson via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class="">Sent from my iPhone</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><br class="">On Jul 16, 2016, at 10:59 AM, T.J. Usiyan via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Yes, sorry, my point was that this consideration isn't spelled out. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Another question is whether or not making a subclass of an open class public by default is what we want. I see why it would be, I just think that it is a wrinkle to default to internal otherwise but not here.</div></div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class="">I can't think of any good reason to assume a specific class should be public just because it is a subclass of an open class. The internal default would still be the right default in this case.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></span>Right, there's no new restriction here. Of course you can make a private or internal subclass of a public open class — otherwise, you'd have to publicize every subclass of (say) UIViewController.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">John.</div></font></span><span class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Karl<span class=""> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:razielim@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">razielim@gmail.com</a>></span><span class=""> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=""><br class="">> On 16 Jul 2016, at 16:10, T.J. Usiyan via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class="">><br class="">> What happens if I want an `internal` subclass of an `open` class?<br class=""><br class=""></span>That should be allowable. You may want some optimised implementations, similar to how Apple used class-clusters in Obj-C. I don’t think that same pattern is exactly possible in Swift (I don’t think a class can set ‘self’ in its initialiser, or at least it couldn’t in Swift 1). But the same principle applies - you may want a public class which you don’t allow others to subclass, but you might have a static method or other function which returns an internal optimised implementation.<br class=""><br class="">If you used a protocol rather than a concrete type in that case, theoretically others could conform to it and throw their own objects back at your code, which goes against the point of this proposal.<br class=""><br class="">We might think about creating ‘sealed’ protocols, too.<br class=""><span class=""><font color="#888888" class=""><br class="">Karl</font></span></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><div class=""><span class="">_______________________________________________</span><br class=""><span class="">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br class=""><span class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a></span><br class=""><span class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></span><br class=""></div></blockquote><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important" class="">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div>
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