<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><br><div>Regards</div>(From<span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "> mobile)</span></div><div><br>On Jul 15, 2016, at 8:26 AM, Chris Lattner via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 14, 2016, at 10:58 PM, Charles Srstka <<a href="mailto:cocoadev@charlessoft.com" class="">cocoadev@charlessoft.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On Jul 14, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Chris Lattner via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></blockquote><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">- Second is that clients of some other public API vended by a non-Apple framework (e.g. a SwiftPM package) may end up in a situation where the framework author didn’t consider subclass-ability, but the client desires it. In this situation, the core team feels that a bigger problem happened: the vendor of the framework did not completely consider the use cases of the framework. This might have happened due to the framework not using sufficient black box unit testing, a failure of the imagination of the designer in terms of use cases, or because they have a bug in their framework that needs unanticipated subclass-ability in order to “get a job done”.</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">Or because the framework was developed in the real world, rather than Elysium, and real-world framework developers just about *never* anticipate every single way someone might use their framework (Indeed, if developers were capable of such a thing, there would be no need for third-party software in the first place).</div></div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div>I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. I agree that it is clearly the case that a framework author cannot anticipate every single use case of their framework. </div><div><br class=""></div><div>However, it is just as clearly the case that “unanticipated subclassability” isn’t a general solution to that problem.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think seeing it as 'clear' is pure perspective, rather than fact. For instance it might ba apple's perspective, but not red hat's (consider that it took 10 years to be able to delete apps from our devices... indicating that from apple's view point there seems to be a mindset that we cannot do things opportunistically, assuming the consequences of our choices, which does exist in others parts of the technology planet).</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><br class=""></div><div>-Chris</div><br class=""></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>swift-evolution mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>