<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Matthew Johnson <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:matthew@anandabits.com" target="_blank">matthew@anandabits.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br><div><span class=""><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jun 29, 2016, at 4:07 PM, Jordan Rose via swift-evolution &lt;<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote type="cite"><div><br>On Jun 29, 2016, at 14:03, Xiaodi Wu &lt;<a href="mailto:xiaodi.wu@gmail.com" target="_blank">xiaodi.wu@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Jordan Rose via swift-evolution<span> </span><span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>&gt;</span><span> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><br><br>&gt; On Jun 29, 2016, at 13:13, Jose Cheyo Jimenez &lt;<a href="mailto:cheyo@masters3d.com" target="_blank">cheyo@masters3d.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I know this might be have been brought up before but<br>&gt;<br>&gt; why not just disallow the “private&quot; keyword for top level types, extensions etc.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; A fixit could change top level `private` to `fileprivate`.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I think this is a little less confusing since effectively this is what is happening in the background.<br><br></span>That doesn’t fix anything for inner types, so it’s a lot less important than the rest of the amendment.<br><br>There actually is an answer to this, which is that the core team expects &#39;private&#39; to be the common keyword, and therefore it’s better if you can use it at the top level and ignore ‘fileprivate’ altogether in most programs.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>On second thought, wouldn&#39;t all of this be inapplicable if `private` literally meant visibility *only* within the current declaration, and neither outside it nor inside any nested types, etc.?</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Yes, but that&#39;s not very useful:</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><blockquote style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>public struct Foo {</div><div>  private var value: Int = 0</div><div>  public func test() {</div><div>    print(value) // error</div><div>  }</div><div>}</div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">I suppose you could say that nested<span> </span><i>types</i> are different from nested<span> </span><i>functions,</i> but then we start getting complexity in a different direction. And it still doesn&#39;t fix the default access within a private type.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>And some of us wouldn’t like that direction which means we may not end up with a solution that makes more people happy anyway at which point we’re back where we started.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Looking back on SE-0025, the problem is that the proposal itself has no details that even come close to resolving any of these differences. The only thing that came up for discussion and was agreed to was that `private` should mean something &quot;visible only within that lexical scope.&quot; None of this is close to settled and we&#39;re probably better off actually debating this in a real proposal.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><span class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Jordan</div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div></blockquote></span></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>