<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 27, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Christopher Kornher <<a href="mailto:ckornher@me.com" class="">ckornher@me.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 26, 2016, at 11:22 PM, Charlie Monroe via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.8px; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">All object references used within a closure must unwrap successfully for the closure to execute.</span></ol></div></blockquote><div class="">I agree with the logic of this proposal, but this is the confusing part or a part that I slightly disagree with.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">By this logic, the block won't be invoked if all captured variables can't be unwrapped, which is definitely confusing to the newcomer (to whom this is partially targetted as you've mentioned) if he puts a breakpoint in it and doesn't get executed even when he's explicitely invoking it somewhere.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On the other hand, when it crashes, it gives him some idea that something's wrong.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Tooling could alleviate some of this mystery. For example:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1) In Xcode and other GUIs, closures that will not be executed could be greyed-out, perhaps with the reason overlaid on the closure perhaps this would only happen when a breakpoint was set within the closure. Perhaps the app could break on the on breakpoints within non-executing closures and notify the user that the closure did not execute.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">2) Debugger console commands could be added to describe the execution state of closures in scope and closure variables.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">3) Debug apps could bottleneck all closures through a function that that can be break-pointed. Breakpoints could be edited to filter on specific closures. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">4) Some runtime switches could be added to enable verbose login modes for closures.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>This can solve issues that you may have with a 2KLOC project that does nothing but waits for the user to click on something. When you have a project of 100KLOC, running at 100% CPU on a background thread, I don't think you'd debug anything since console would be flooded by thousands of log messages...</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t think that this is an insurmountable problem. There are many features of modern applications that are difficult to debug.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><ol style="list-style-type: lower-alpha" class="">
</ol><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10.8px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial; min-height: 12px;" class=""><span style="font-kerning: none" class=""></span><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10.8px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><span style="font-kerning: none" class="">I believe that these are safe, sensible and understandable rules that will eliminate the need for capture lists for many closures. What do you think?</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10.8px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial; min-height: 12px;" class=""><span style="font-kerning: none" class=""></span><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10.8px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial; min-height: 12px;" class=""><span style="font-kerning: none" class=""></span><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>