<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Sometimes I get the sense that the pleasure of discussing takes precedence over the goal it serves, namely to create a language that will be the most attractive it can be within a given complexity budget (meaning a balance between the immediate reward of shiny new things and the long term evolvability of the compiler). I seem to recall this item coming directly from chris as a compiler cleanup task.<br></div><div><br>On Jun 25, 2016, at 3:23 PM, Matthew Johnson via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><div class="">Hi Austin,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>I’m sorry to say, but this proposal makes me really sad. I consider associated type inference one of the more elegant aspects of Swift. It would be very unfortunate to lose it. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am really pleased to see that Dmitri has offered an alternative that looks very reasonable. I’m hoping the Doug or Chris (or someone else from the core team) can chime in on the feasibility of this alternative. If it is considered viable and Dmitri isn’t able to write the proposal I would be happy to do so.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If the alternative isn’t viable and we must proceed with a proposal to remove inference I think there is one crucial thing to consider that isn’t discussed in this proposal: retroactive modeling. As far as I can tell, this proposal will *prohibit* some types from conforming to some protocols. Specifically, if a type defines a typealias with a name that matches the name of an associatedtype in a protocol it would not be possible to retroactively model that protocol. Because of the name conflict an associatedtype declaration would not be allowed and the existing typealias would not meet the requirement. Consider this example:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">// Module A</div><div class="">public struct S {</div><div class=""> public typealias Foo = Int</div><div class="">}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">// Module B</div><div class="">public protocol P {</div><div class=""> associatedtype Foo</div><div class="">}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">// Module C</div><div class="">import A</div><div class="">import B</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">// compiler error: `S` does not meet the `Foo` associatedtype requirement</div><div class="">extension S : P {</div><div class=""> // compiler error: cannot define associatedtype `Foo` for `S` which already declares typealias `Foo`</div><div class=""> associatedtype Foo = String</div><div class="">}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I cannot support any proposal that breaks retroactive modeling in this way.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Another item that is not mentioned in this proposal is that typealias is not the only way to meet an associatedtype requirement in the language today. For example, this code is legal:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">protocol Foo {<br class=""> associatedtype Bar<br class="">}<br class="">struct S : Foo {<br class=""> struct Bar {}<br class="">}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If we *must* drop inference I prefer the alternative of just doing that: dropping inference, but otherwise leaving things alone. All associated type requirements would need to be explicitly satisfied using one of the mechanisms that is currently valid for satisfying a non-inferred associated type requirement. The ability to satisfy these requirements in a variety of ways is a *benefit* that provides valuable flexibility.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">I agree that something should look for a good solution to the subclass typealias issue, but I don’t think this is it. Ideally we would find a solution that works well in the presence of retroactive modeling making code such as the following valid:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">// module A</div><div class="">protocol P1 {<br class=""> associatedtype Foo</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> @infers(Foo)<br class=""> var foo: Foo { get }<br class="">}</div><div class="">// module B<br class="">protocol P2 {<br class=""> associatedtype Foo</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> @infers(Foo)<br class=""> func bar() -> Foo<br class="">}<br class=""><br class="">// module C<br class="">class Base {<br class=""> let foo: String = "foo"<br class="">}<br class="">class Derived : Base {<br class=""> func bar() -> Int { return 42 }<br class="">}</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">// module D</div><div class="">import A</div><div class="">import B</div><div class="">import C</div><div class="">import D</div><div class="">extension Base : P1 {}</div><div class="">extension Derived : P2 {}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We don’t always control the protocol or type definitions we want to make work together. The ability to make code that “should work together” actually do so with minimal fuss is one of the great things about Swift. Any time we interfere with retroactive modeling we increase the need for boilerplate adapter types, etc.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">One detail appears to be implied by the proposal but isn’t explicitly stated. Specifically, it looks like the intent is that other than only being valid when used to meet a protocol requirement, associatedtype otherwise works like a typealias. It would be good to have this behavior clarified if the proposal moves forward.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Matthew</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 25, 2016, at 12:50 AM, Austin Zheng via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hello all,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Per Chris Lattner's list of open Swift 3 design topics (<a href="http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.swift.evolution/21369" class="">http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.swift.evolution/21369</a>), I've put together a proposal for removing type inference for associated types.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It can be found here: <a href="https://github.com/austinzheng/swift-evolution/blob/az-assoctypeinf/proposals/XXXX-remove-assoctype-inference.md" class="">https://github.com/austinzheng/swift-evolution/blob/az-assoctypeinf/proposals/XXXX-remove-assoctype-inference.md</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thoughts, criticism, and feedback welcome. There are at least two slightly different designs in the proposal, and I'm sure people will have ideas for even more.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Austin</div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>swift-evolution mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>