<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Vladimir.S via swift-evolution <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">On 15.06.2016 17:19, Sean Heber wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Jun 15, 2016, at 7:21 AM, Vladimir.S via swift-evolution<br>
<<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
I believe we should not take into account any IDE features when<br>
discussing the *language*. One will write Swift script code in vim on<br>
linux, other will read in web browser on github etc.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Unrelated to anything else in this discussion, I just wanted to respond<br>
to this and say that I’m totally opposed to this line of thinking. If we<br>
continue to design languages that must accommodate the lowest common<br>
denominator in terms of tooling, we’ll never advance anything in<br>
meaningful ways. Tooling is super important and it is mostly terrible.<br>
It could be so much better. We don’t have much (any?) influence over<br>
Xcode via swift-evolution, but if the language evolves in ways where<br>
smarter, better, more advanced IDEs are the best way to use it, then<br>
Xcode will adapt and if Xcode adapts and proves a better workflow, then<br>
other tools will also adapt and everyone in any language on all<br>
platforms will eventually benefit from that exploration.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Well, of course I support improvement of tools & IDEs in all the ways that can help developer. But I'm against suggestions to solve some problem *in languge* by introducing some feature in *IDE*(especially in only one IDE - XCode), like the suggestion to solve ambiguity with order of processing in complex expression by *only* showing some hints in XCode.<br>
I.e. I'm voting to solve problem in language itself first, and then(or if can't be solved) in IDE.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think the counterpoint to be made here is that if a satisfying solution to the problem can be found through better tooling, then arguably the problem lies with tooling and not with the language itself.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
l8r Sean<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
_______________________________________________<br>
swift-evolution mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>