<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Christopher Kornher <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:ckornher@me.com" target="_blank">ckornher@me.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br><div><span class=""><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jun 10, 2016, at 1:52 PM, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution &lt;<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution<span> </span><span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>&gt;</span><span> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks for the laugh!<br><br>The last week or so is actually stressing me out about the direction where swift is going…<br><br>I hope it is just a fleeting feeling but that remains to be seen. I am beginning to think my interests and taste are no longer aligning with the communities or core teams.<br><br>Brandon<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think, given the usage statistics, we&#39;ll find that these amount to small nips and tucks. I can&#39;t speak to whether things will be to your taste, but please rest assured that these proposals do not arise out of anyone&#39;s taste or distaste (outside that of the core team). If taste were the basis for proposals, I&#39;d be proposing rather larger changes to the syntax, but I appreciate that my personal taste is of no import.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Language design is an art as much as a science. Expressiveness is an extremely important feature of a language to me (and of Swift). If we want to be scientific about it, character and line counts are very rough metrics for expressiveness. How many more characters does changing &#39;where’s to ‘guards&#39; cost?  How many lines would be added by a sensibly formatted replacement?</div><div><br></div><div>Java is a great example of a language that did not put a high priority on expressiveness and consequently Java code has a very high fraction of boilerplate.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We&#39;ve had this discussion before. I and others don&#39;t consider `{ continue }` to be boilerplate but essential for understanding control flow. No one is advocating for more boilerplate. You proceed on the premise that `while` is just enough and `guard` is too much boilerplate; what we are arguing is that `while` is *not* enough and `guard` is just right.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div>I do not want to see Swift be “Javaized” in the name of “rationalization”. Rationalization does not require the language to be dumbed-down to a lowest common denominator syntax.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>&quot;Clarity,&quot; not &quot;rationalization&quot; is the watchword here.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>But as to interests, please do speak loudly and without reserve if any proposed changes are putting a stop to real-world (or even anticipated) uses you have. That&#39;s precisely what this process is about.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br>&gt; On Jun 10, 2016, at 3:25 PM, L. Mihalkovic via swift-evolution &lt;<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Goodness... where is this language going.....<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; On Jun 10, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution &lt;<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; On Jun 10, 2016, at 1:06 PM, Rob Norback via swift-evolution &lt;<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Following Brent&#39;s logic that the for-in where should mimic the switch statement functionality, then this example:<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; for (eachKey, eachValue)<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; where eachValue &gt; 5<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; in theKeyValuePairs {... }<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; &lt;squish&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; I finally convinced myself of which direction I wanted to go:<span> </span><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/pull/362/files" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/pull/362/files</a><br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Related blog post here:<span> </span><a href="http://ericasadun.com/2016/06/10/swift-where-oh-where-can-my-where-clause-be/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ericasadun.com/2016/06/10/swift-where-oh-where-can-my-where-clause-be/</a><br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Big thanks to Brent and Wux.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; -- E<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt;&gt; swift-evolution mailing list<br>&gt;&gt;<span> </span><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br>&gt;&gt;<span> </span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br>&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; swift-evolution mailing list<br>&gt;<span> </span><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br>&gt;<span> </span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>swift-evolution mailing list<br><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>