<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 10, 2016, at 1:52 PM, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;">Thanks for the laugh!<br class=""><br class="">The last week or so is actually stressing me out about the direction where swift is going…<br class=""><br class="">I hope it is just a fleeting feeling but that remains to be seen. I am beginning to think my interests and taste are no longer aligning with the communities or core teams.<br class=""><br class="">Brandon<br class=""></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think, given the usage statistics, we'll find that these amount to small nips and tucks. I can't speak to whether things will be to your taste, but please rest assured that these proposals do not arise out of anyone's taste or distaste (outside that of the core team). If taste were the basis for proposals, I'd be proposing rather larger changes to the syntax, but I appreciate that my personal taste is of no import.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Language design is an art as much as a science. Expressiveness is an extremely important feature of a language to me (and of Swift). If we want to be scientific about it, character and line counts are very rough metrics for expressiveness. How many more characters does changing 'where’s to ‘guards' cost? How many lines would be added by a sensibly formatted replacement?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Java is a great example of a language that did not put a high priority on expressiveness and consequently Java code has a very high fraction of boilerplate. I do not want to see Swift be “Javaized” in the name of “rationalization”. Rationalization does not require the language to be dumbed-down to a lowest common denominator syntax.</div><div><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But as to interests, please do speak loudly and without reserve if any proposed changes are putting a stop to real-world (or even anticipated) uses you have. That's precisely what this process is about.<br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br class="">> On Jun 10, 2016, at 3:25 PM, L. Mihalkovic via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class="">><br class="">> Goodness... where is this language going.....<br class="">><br class="">>> On Jun 10, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class="">>><br class="">>><br class="">>>> On Jun 10, 2016, at 1:06 PM, Rob Norback via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class="">>>><br class="">>>> Following Brent's logic that the for-in where should mimic the switch statement functionality, then this example:<br class="">>>><br class="">>>> for (eachKey, eachValue)<br class="">>>> where eachValue > 5<br class="">>>> in theKeyValuePairs {... }<br class="">>><br class="">>> <squish><br class="">>><br class="">>> I finally convinced myself of which direction I wanted to go:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/pull/362/files" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/pull/362/files</a><br class="">>><br class="">>> Related blog post here:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://ericasadun.com/2016/06/10/swift-where-oh-where-can-my-where-clause-be/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://ericasadun.com/2016/06/10/swift-where-oh-where-can-my-where-clause-be/</a><br class="">>><br class="">>> Big thanks to Brent and Wux.<br class="">>><br class="">>> -- E<br class="">>><br class="">>><br class="">>><br class="">>><br class="">>> _______________________________________________<br class="">>> swift-evolution mailing list<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class="">> _______________________________________________<br class="">> swift-evolution mailing list<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; 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