<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On May 29, 2016, at 9:20 PM, Matthew Johnson <<a href="mailto:matthew@anandabits.com" class="">matthew@anandabits.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></blockquote><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">On May 29, 2016, at 5:43 PM, Charles Srstka via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On May 29, 2016, at 5:16 PM, Austin Zheng <<a href="mailto:austinzheng@gmail.com" class="">austinzheng@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></blockquote><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">I think the problem here is that P == P is true, but P : P is not (a protocol does not conform to itself).</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But if you have a variable, parameter, etc. typed as P, that’s *not* the protocol, since protocols aren’t concrete entities. What you have there, by definition, is something that conforms to P. Similarly, something like [P] is just a collection of things, perhaps of various types, which all have the common feature that they conform to P.</div></div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="">You have an existential value of type P. It is a well known frustration in Swift that the existential type corresponding to a protocol does not conform to the protocol. This has been discussed off and on at different times. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There are a couple of reasons this is the case. IIRC in some cases it actually isn't possible for the existential to conform to the protocol in a sound way. And even when it is possible, I believe it has been said that it is more difficult to implement than you might think. Hopefully the situation will improve in the future but I'm not aware of any specific plans at the moment.</div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">It’s been my understanding that a variable typed P in swift is equivalent to what we would have called id <P> in Objective-C—that is, an object of unknown type that conforms to P. Is this not the case? I am curious what the conceptual difference would be, as well as the rationale behind it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Charles</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></body></html>