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.send { color:#77bb77; }
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.error { color:#AA0000; }</style></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="bloop_markdown"><p>Moving this review to where it belongs. Not sure who renamed it to SE–0089?!</p>
<p></p></div><div class="bloop_original_html"><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div> <br> <div id="bloop_sign_1464361115351956992" class="bloop_sign"><div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px">-- <br>Adrian Zubarev<br>Sent with Airmail</div></div> <br><p class="airmail_on">Am 27. Mai 2016 bei 16:58:16, Matthew Johnson via swift-evolution (<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>) schrieb:</p> <blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div></div><div>
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<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On May 27, 2016, at 3:57 AM, Thorsten Seitz
<<a href="mailto:tseitz42@icloud.com" class="">tseitz42@icloud.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
Am 25.05.2016 um 17:03 schrieb Matthew Johnson via swift-evolution
<<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On May 25, 2016, at 9:59 AM, L. Mihalkovic via
swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
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<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
On May 25, 2016, at 10:01 AM, Austin Zheng via swift-evolution
<<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
I am not going to comment on the proposal (conflict of interest
etc). I do want to speak up in support of Brent's points,
though.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On May 25, 2016, at 12:34 AM,
Brent Royal-Gordon via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
* What is your evaluation of the proposal?<br class=""></blockquote>
<br class="">
I am in favor. This is a necessary step towards many future
features: class-plus-protocol types, the
replacement/reimplementation of AnyObject with Any<class>,
existentials with associated types, etc.<br class="">
<br class="">
One reason to prefer `Any` over `any` which is not listed in the
proposal is confusion with the unparameterized `Any` type. Having
an uppercase `Any` and a lowercase `any<…>` is going to lead
to a lot of confusion; people aren't going to remember whether they
need the capitalized form or the lowercase one for any particular
use. I don't think we can have `any<...>` unless we're also
willing to have an unparameterized `any`, and I think `any` is 100%
wrong, because it is absolutely a type but is lowercase.<br class="">
<br class="">
Since we are trying to cram as many breaking changes as possible
into Swift 3, I also think we should consider now, or soon, whether
or not we want to draw a strong syntactic line between
protocols-as-existentials and protocols-as-constraints by requiring
the use of `Any<…>` on all existentials and forbidding its
use in constraints. That would mean, for instance, that code like
this:<br class="">
<br class="">
let printable: CustomStringConvertible = foo<br class="">
<br class="">
Would now be written:<br class="">
<br class="">
let printable: Any<CustomStringConvertible> =
foo<br class=""></blockquote>
<br class="">
I'm sure this will be controversial, but I like the idea of marking
all existential types using Any-syntax. It makes the distinction
between concrete and existential types in code completely clear to
the reader. Given that there are some subtle differences in how
concrete and existential types can be used (for example, used as
the types of values passed to generic functions), I think this is
definitely worth considering.<br class="">
<br class=""></blockquote>
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Much of what I read about the swift philosophy seems to boil down
to immediate association of the semantic with the syntax, to help
the newcomer 'parse' the language in their mind with less efforts.
Seems to me that Any<> being so close to Array<> could
be construed as running counter to that
philosophy.</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">This is a big part of the case for using lowercase
`any`. But there are good arguments on both sides. In
Joe’s hypothetical future Swift, `Any` would be a standard library
type thus it wouldn’t have such a strong difference from
Array.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
The difference stems from the fact that the order of parameters
does not matter in `Any` whereas it is essential for generic
types.</div>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Would this be changed by Joe’s vision?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class=""></div>
<div>I’m not sure. Hopefully Joe can answer. </div>
<div><br class=""></div>
<div>I agree that indifference to order is important here and is an
important difference from the generic types we have today.</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">-Thorsten</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
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