<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 20, 2016, at 11:29 AM, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px;" class="">Ok fine your point is that we should not restrict redundancy in `Any<>`. Shall I still submit this to see what the core team thinks about it, even if it gets rejected?</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Right now what we need to do is have a simple proposal to rename `protocol` to `any` to set the stage for the future enhancements (notice the lowercase of `any` which I believe is the right direction). It sounds like that is all that will be accomplished in the Swift 3 timeframe. </div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div id="bloop_sign_1463761642234360064" class="bloop_sign" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 13px;" class="">-- <br class="">Adrian Zubarev<br class="">Sent with Airmail</div></div><br style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><p class="airmail_on" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Am 20. Mai 2016 bei 18:08:44, Matthew Johnson (<a href="mailto:matthew@anandabits.com" class="">matthew@anandabits.com</a>) schrieb:</p><blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 20, 2016, at 11:03 AM, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div id="bloop_customfont" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px;">I’m referring to this talk form the SE-0095 thread:</div><div id="bloop_customfont" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div id="bloop_customfont" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px;"><blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq">My feedback is that we should narrow what is acceptable for Any as much as possible, because<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">relaxing restrictions in the future won’t break existing code</b>.<br class=""><br class=""><b class="">To that end, I’d suggest Any<>,Any<Any, XX>, and Any<Any<XX>> all cause warnings.</b><br class=""><br class="">-DW<br class=""><br class="">> On May 19, 2016, at 12:43 AM, Austin Zheng <<a href="mailto:austinzheng@gmail.com" class="">austinzheng@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">> <br class="">> Does anyone want to speak up in favor of 'Any<>'? The more I think about it the more I think 'Any' should just be the single, canonical form.<br class="">> <br class="">> Austin<br class="">> <br class="">> <br class="">>> On May 18, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Colin Barrett <<a href="mailto:colin@springsandstruts.com" class="">colin@springsandstruts.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">>> <br class="">>> There's no need for this, that's what I was trying to get across. It's (likely) a special case in the grammar right now. If we eliminate Any<>, from the point of view of syntax, both Any and Any<Foo, Bar> are just a built in type and normal application of generic arguments (to a built in type).<br class="">>> <br class="">>> -Colin (via thumbs)<br class="">>> <br class="">>>> On May 19, 2016, at 1:58 AM, Austin Zheng <<a href="mailto:austinzheng@gmail.com" class="">austinzheng@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">>>> <br class="">>>> - 'Any<>' should be allowed. You can currently use 'protocol<>' in your code instead of 'Any'.<br class=""></blockquote></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">We could allow everything. Personally I wouldn’t care much, because of best practice style. But if we will decide to restrict something after Swift 3 drops this will break code again, which we want to avoid, am I right?</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If we wanted to do it it would probably be for a very good reason and we would probably be willing to accept the breakage. Let’s not introduce arbitrary and somewhat complex restrictions just because “we can’t break code after Swift 3”.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div id="bloop_sign_1463759939743480064" class="bloop_sign" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="" style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 13px;">-- <br class="">Adrian Zubarev<br class="">Sent with Airmail</div></div><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><p class="airmail_on" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Am 20. Mai 2016 bei 17:40:03, Matthew Johnson (<a href="mailto:matthew@anandabits.com" class="">matthew@anandabits.com</a>) schrieb:</p><blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""></div><div class=""><span class=""><br class=""></span><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><span class="">On May 20, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</span></div><span class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><div class=""><div id="bloop_customfont" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px;"><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px;"><blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="">I don't understand what you mean. I definitely think your '<span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">typealias ABC = Any<AB, C>' should be valid.</span></span></blockquote></div><p class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px;">I said<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">typealias ABC = Any<AB, C> is valid.</span></p><p class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Where</span></p><p class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">typealias AliasA = Any<A></span></p><p class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">is not and furthermore</span></p><p class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px;"><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">typealias AliasAA = Any<AliasA></span></p><p class=""><span class="" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">should also not be valid because Any<Any<A>> shouldn’t be valid.</span></p><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px;"><blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="">IMO the rules around banning nested any are unnecessary complexity. The constructs have a well defined meaning. The argument to ban them is purely around limiting allowable syntactic style. People are very unlikely to actually use this nesting except through the abstraction of a typealias which is a very valid use case. The complexity of the rules does not appear to provide any tangible benefit.</div></blockquote></div></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">Which rule(s) do you refer to exactly?</span></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Any rules that ban syntactic constructs which have a well defined meaning on purely stylistic grounds. Those introduce unnecessary complexity for little, if any benefit. As Tony points out, it is possible that such bans would have unintended consequences and ban useful constructs. It is not worth the effort to try to ensure they don’t have unintended consequences. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We rely on people to do sensible things stylistically all the time (Swift does not enforce code layout like some languages do). I don’t see why `Any` should be different.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""><div id="bloop_sign_1463757384681544960" class="bloop_sign"><div class="" style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 13px;">-- <br class="">Adrian Zubarev<br class="">Sent with Airmail</div></div><br class=""><p class="airmail_on">Am 20. Mai 2016 bei 17:12:40, Matthew Johnson (<a href="mailto:matthew@anandabits.com" class="">matthew@anandabits.com</a>) schrieb:</p></div><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">_______________________________________________</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; 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