<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>Resending message to list. Seems like iOS Mail (or me) really has problems with setting the reply to the list automatically :-(</div><div>Thanks, Adrian, for notifying me.</div><div><br></div><div>-Thorsten <br><br>Anfang der weitergeleiteten E‑Mail:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><b>Von:</b> Adrian Zubarev <<a href="mailto:adrian.zubarev@devandartist.com">adrian.zubarev@devandartist.com</a>><br><b>Datum:</b> 13. Mai 2016 um 16:50:52 MESZ<br><b>An:</b> Thorsten Seitz <<a href="mailto:tseitz42@icloud.com">tseitz42@icloud.com</a>><br><b>Betreff:</b> <b>Re: [swift-evolution] [Pitch] merge types and protocols back together with type<Type, Protocol, ...></b><br><br></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Your message was private, maybe by accident? Consider to resend it to the public thread if you’d like. ;)</div> <br> <div id="bloop_sign_1463150778451875840" class="bloop_sign"><div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px">-- <br>Adrian Zubarev<br>Sent with Airmail</div></div> <br><p class="airmail_on">Am 13. Mai 2016 bei 08:16:51, Thorsten Seitz (<a href="mailto:tseitz42@icloud.com">tseitz42@icloud.com</a>) schrieb:</p> <blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span><div><div></div><div>
<title></title>
<div><br></div>
<div><br>
Am 12. Mai 2016 um 22:08 schrieb Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution
<<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>:<br>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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I don’t get the part how `all<>` should allow `any<>`.
Could you explain that a little bit in detail (I’m not familiar
with Ceylon)?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>`all<>` and `any<>` form a pair of
complementary type operators, one creating the intersection of the
given types (your proposal) and the other creating the union of the
given types. As Ceylon has demonstrated that both are really useful
I'd like to have both in Swift and therefore would prefer that both
should be named such that this duality is visible. Having
`type<>` and `any<>` would certainly be possible
technically but the naming would not be good.</span></div>
<div><span><br></span>
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From my point of view `any<>` is something different that I
pitched here. `any<>` could be proposed in its own thread,
because it is way different than `type<>`. Or can we refine
the rules of `type<>` to get to `any<>`?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>You are right, `any<>` is something different and
could be proposed in its own thread. I just wanted to extend the
context for finding a good name for `type<>`.</span></div>
<div><span><br></span>
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Here is a little example where `any<>` gets strange:</div>
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<br></div>
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func foo(value: any<String, Int>) -> any<String,
Int> {</div>
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<br></div>
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// how would one use value here?</div>
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// what about its properties</div>
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// what will foo return and how to use the
result</div>
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}</div>
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</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>Ceylon uses flow typing for that (if (is String value) {
/* value has type String here */ }).</span></div>
<div><span>In Swift the equivalent would be `if let string = value
as? String { ... }`:<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>func foo(value: any<Strint, Int>) ->
any<String, Int> {<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span> if let string = value as? String
{<br></span></div>
<div><span> return
string.characters.count<br></span></div>
<div><span> }</span></div>
<div><span> else if let int= value as? Int
{<br></span></div>
<div><span> return
String(int)<br></span></div>
<div><span> }</span></div>
<div><span>}<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>A more sensical example using a type union would be the
union of two sets:<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>func union<T, U>(a: Set<T>, b: Set<U>)
-> Set<any<T, U>> { ... }<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>And for type intersection the intersection of two
sets:<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>func intersection<T, U>(a: Set<T>, b:
Set<U>) -> Set<all<T, U>> { ...
}<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>(Ceylon's type operators just read better
there...)<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>Another example for type unions:<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>Ceylon like Swift makes heavy use of optionals but where
Swift has a generic wrapper Optional<T> Ceylon just makes use
of type unions: in Ceylon T? is syntactic sugar for the type union
T | Null where Null is the type having the singleton value
null.<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>FWIW Microsoft's Typescript gained union and
intersection types about (I think) a year ago.<br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><br>
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<br></div>
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One benefit of `any<>` is the replacement of overloading, at
least for the type part of the function.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>Exactly.</span></div>
<div><br></div>
<span> </span>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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</div>
`all<>` could be seen as an alternative name for
`type<>`, but to me its not clear what `all<>` can
do, <span style="font-family: 'arial' , sans-serif; white-space: nowrap;" data-mce-style="font-family: 'arial' , sans-serif; white-space: nowrap;">whereas
`type<>` is almost like `protocol<>`.</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>Right, `all<>` is just an alternative name for
`type<>`. There is no change in functionality.</span></div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span>-Thorsten</span></div>
<div><span><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div>
<div><span><br></span>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="msg-quote" style="word-wrap: break-word;" data-mce-style="word-wrap: break-word;"><br>
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<div style="font-family: 'helvetica' , 'arial'; font-size: 13px;" data-mce-style="font-family: 'helvetica' , 'arial'; font-size: 13px;">
-- <br>
Adrian Zubarev<br>
Sent with Airmail</div>
</div>
<br>
<p class="airmail_on">Am 12. Mai 2016 bei 21:40:24, Thorsten Seitz
(<a href="mailto:tseitz42@icloud.com" data-mce-href="mailto:tseitz42@icloud.com">tseitz42@icloud.com</a>) schrieb:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class="" data-mce-style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>Ceylon uses „&" for intersection types, i.e.</span>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>SomeRealClass & SomeProtocol</span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>and the bar („|“) for union types,
i.e. </span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>String | Int</span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>That has proven to be very lightweight and
readable in Ceylon where it is heavily used to good
effect.</span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>I agree with you that</span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>type<SomeRealClass,
SomeProtocol> </span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>is much nicer than protocol<> for
intersection types but to keep the door open for union types, I
would prefer</span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>all<SomeRealClass,
SomeProtocol></span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>This would allow</span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>any<String, Int></span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>to be used for union types.</span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span>-Thorsten</span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span></div>
<div class=""><span><br class=""></span>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class=""><span>Am 12.05.2016 um 16:09 schrieb Adrian Zubarev
via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="" data-mce-href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>:</span></div>
<span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span>
<div class="">
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<span><span style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica';" class="" data-mce-style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica';">protocol<SomeRealClass,
SomeProtocol> </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica';" class="" data-mce-style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica';">protocol<SomeRealStruct,
SomeProtocol> </span></div>
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<span style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica';" class="" data-mce-style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica';"><br class=""></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica'; font-size: 13px;" class="" data-mce-style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica'; font-size: 13px;">This
feels really odd to me. </span></div>
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</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica'; font-size: 13px;" class="" data-mce-style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica'; font-size: 13px;">`type<</span><span style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica'; font-size: 13px;" class="" data-mce-style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica'; font-size: 13px;">SomeRealClass, </span><span style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica'; font-size: 13px;" class="" data-mce-style="font-family: 'helvetica neue' , 'helvetica'; font-size: 13px;">SomeProtocol</span><span style="font-family: helvetica Neue,helvetica;" data-mce-style="font-family: helvetica Neue,helvetica;" face="helvetica Neue, helvetica">>` is more clear I’d
say.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: helvetica Neue,helvetica;" data-mce-style="font-family: helvetica Neue,helvetica;" face="helvetica Neue, helvetica"><br class=""></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: helvetica Neue,helvetica;" data-mce-style="font-family: helvetica Neue,helvetica;" face="helvetica Neue, helvetica">I think this would be a
good </span><span style="font-family: 'arial' , sans-serif; white-space: nowrap;" class="" data-mce-style="font-family: 'arial' , sans-serif; white-space: nowrap;">addition
to the type system and allow us to build more complex and type save
code.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: 'arial' , sans-serif; white-space: nowrap;" class="" data-mce-style="font-family: 'arial' , sans-serif; white-space: nowrap;"><br class="">
</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="white-space: nowrap;" class="" data-mce-style="white-space: nowrap;">But still I’d love to discuss
if there might be any disadvantages to this
feature.</span></span></div>
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-- <br class="">
Adrian Zubarev<br class="">
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Am 12. Mai 2016 bei 15:11:00, Vladimir.S (<a href="mailto:svabox@gmail.com" class="" data-mce-href="mailto:svabox@gmail.com">svabox@gmail.com</a>) schrieb:</p>
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