<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Lets sum things up before I try to write a draft proposal for this feature `type<>` aka `all<>`.</div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><b>Is this feature out of scope for Swift 3?</b></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">From my point of view it’s definitely not. </div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><b>Is the name `type<>` really that bad for the compiler?</b></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Here I’m not sure, because that is out of my experience. From a readers perspective it’s more clear than `all<>`, I would say, even though this is a perfect explanation why it should be called `all<>`:</div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><div><blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq" style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: 'normal helvetica', sans-serif;">I also see Thorsten (and in the past Brent's?) argument for calling it "all" or "All", because it's<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u>enforcing multiple constraints</u>.</span></div></blockquote></div><p><b>Do we miss any rules here?</b></p><div id="bloop_customfont" style="margin: 0px;"><ul><li>`type<>` can contain only one value-type or reference-type and n protocols</li><li>the value-type or reference-type should always be the first element between angle brackets</li><li>`type<>` should always contain at least 2 types (one value-type or a reference-type and at least one protocol)</li><li>reference-types do represent a possible super/base type/class</li><li>nesting `type<>` is not allowed, however `type<>` can contain `protocol<>`</li><li>protocols conformance of `type<>` is tested with the actual type `type<>` not with the first element of `type<>` (hard to describe this one, does this makes sense to you?)</li></ul></div><p><b>Does this proposal need more than the base `type<>`?</b></p><p>Maybe, but I think we should start with `type<>` before we will introduce a type operator for this.</p><div>Did I missed anything out here? </div><div><br></div><div>PS: Feel free to help me with my English, because it’s not so well.</div></div> <br> <div id="bloop_sign_1463151078753076992" class="bloop_sign"><div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px">-- <br>Adrian Zubarev<br>Sent with Airmail</div></div> <br><p class="airmail_on">Am 13. Mai 2016 bei 16:21:41, Tony Allevato (<a href="mailto:allevato@google.com">allevato@google.com</a>) schrieb:</p> <blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span><div><div></div><div>
<title></title>
<div dir="ltr">I think there would be a certain elegance to
allowing Boolean type expressions wherever types are currently
allowed, so `A & B` being a replacement for `protocol<A,
B>` might look nice, and then extend that to allow concrete
types as well. Then, if Swift ever decided to support union types,
the `|` operator naturally fits there.
<div><br></div>
<div>One concern though would be whether parsing would get more
complicated with deeply composed expressions. If we only supported
`&`, there's no real nesting going on. But if we wanted to be
forward thinking and leave the door open for `|`, we might need to
support things like `(String | Int) & SomeProtocol`, and I'm
not enough of a parser expert to know whether that would really
complicate things (e.g., could the compiler decide easily enough
that those parentheses are part of a type expression and not a
function type?).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>`all<A, B>` would be a nice compromise in that case, and
leave the door open for `any<A, B>` in the future. So I'd be
supportive of either option.</div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 1:30 PM Jordan Rose via
swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>
wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>We've been over this a few times before on the list. I
personally like naming this thing "Any<…>" in the same vein
as "AnyObject", "AnyClass", and "AnySequence". I also see Thorsten
(and in the past Brent's?) argument for calling it "all" or "All",
because it's enforcing multiple constraints.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I will say that "type" is unlikely to see much traction simply
because it is an <i>incredibly</i> common name for both
properties and locals. We went through that exercise when trying to
name both "static" and "dynamicType" and decided that it would be
too confusing, even if we could make the parsing work.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The feature itself has definitely been shown to be useful when
working with the Cocoa frameworks, if not in general. I don't see
it on JIRA yet but we have it internally tracked in Radar
as <a>rdar://problem/15873071</a>.</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br></div>
<div>Jordan</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br></div>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On May 12, 2016, at 13:08, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution
<<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
I don’t get the part how `all<>` should allow `any<>`.
Could you explain that a little bit in detail (I’m not familiar
with Ceylon)?</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
From my point of view `any<>` is something different that I
pitched here. `any<>` could be proposed in its own thread,
because it is way different than `type<>`. Or can we refine
the rules of `type<>` to get to `any<>`?</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
Here is a little example where `any<>` gets strange:</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
func foo(value: any<String, Int>) -> any<String,
Int> {</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
// how would one use value here?</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
// what about its properties</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
// what will foo return and how to use the
result</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
}</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
One benefit of `any<>` is the replacement of overloading, at
least for the type part of the function.</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
I’d like to propose `type<>` as the base extension to the
language in that direction, before we’ll move forward with more
complex scenarios (just like Chris did with generic
typealias).</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
This function is clear that it only will work if you provide a
subclass of an UIView which conforms to SomeProtocol (nice addition
for library design).</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<div style="margin:0px">func foo(value: type<UIView,
SomeProtocol>) -> type<UIView, SomeProtocol>
{</div>
<div style="margin:0px"><br></div>
<div style="margin:0px"> // use it as a UIView and
SomeProtocol at the same type</div>
<div style="margin:0px"> return value // return type
works great</div>
<div style="margin:0px">}</div>
<div style="margin:0px"><br></div>
<div style="margin:0px">We can split the value just fine:</div>
<div style="margin:0px"><br></div>
<div style="margin:0px">let mergedValue =
foo(SomeViewThatWorks)</div>
<div style="margin:0px">let view: UIView = mergedValue</div>
<div style="margin:0px">let protocolValue: SomeProtocol =
mergedValue</div>
<div style="margin:0px"><br></div>
<div style="margin:0px">And merge it back together:</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
guard let newMergedValue = view as? type<UIView,
SomeProtocol> else { /* do something */ }</div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<br></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
`all<>` could be seen as an alternative name for
`type<>`, but to me its not clear what `all<>` can
do, <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap">whereas
`type<>` is almost like `protocol<>`.</span></div>
<br style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
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<div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px">
-- <br>
Adrian Zubarev<br>
Sent with Airmail</div>
</div>
<br style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<p style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
Am 12. Mai 2016 bei 21:40:24, Thorsten Seitz (<a href="mailto:tseitz42@icloud.com" target="_blank">tseitz42@icloud.com</a>) schrieb:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><span>Ceylon uses „&" for intersection types, i.e.</span>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>SomeRealClass & SomeProtocol</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>and the bar („|“) for union types,
i.e. </span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>String | Int</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>That has proven to be very lightweight and readable in
Ceylon where it is heavily used to good effect.</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>I agree with you that</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>type<SomeRealClass,
SomeProtocol> </span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>is much nicer than protocol<> for intersection
types but to keep the door open for union types, I would
prefer</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>all<SomeRealClass, SomeProtocol></span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>This would allow</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>any<String, Int></span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>to be used for union types.</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>-Thorsten</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span><br></span>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>Am 12.05.2016 um 16:09 schrieb Adrian Zubarev via
swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>:</span></div>
<span><br></span>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<span><span style="font-family:'helvetica Neue',helvetica">protocol<SomeRealClass,
SomeProtocol> </span></span></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:'helvetica Neue',helvetica">protocol<SomeRealStruct,
SomeProtocol> </span></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:'helvetica Neue',helvetica"><br></span></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:'helvetica Neue',helvetica;font-size:13px">This feels
really odd to me. </span></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:'helvetica Neue',helvetica;font-size:13px"><br></span></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:'helvetica Neue',helvetica;font-size:13px">`type<</span><span style="font-family:'helvetica Neue',helvetica;font-size:13px">SomeRealClass, </span><span style="font-family:'helvetica Neue',helvetica;font-size:13px">SomeProtocol</span><font face="helvetica Neue, helvetica">>`
is more clear I’d say.</font></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<font face="helvetica Neue, helvetica"><br></font></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<font face="helvetica Neue, helvetica">I think this would be a
good </font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap">addition to the
type system and allow us to build more complex and type save
code.</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap"><br></span></div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px">
<font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="white-space:nowrap">But
still I’d love to discuss if there might be
any disadvantages to this feature.</span></font></div>
<br style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
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<div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:13px">
-- <br>
Adrian Zubarev<br>
Sent with Airmail</div>
</div>
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<p style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
Am 12. Mai 2016 bei 15:11:00, Vladimir.S (<a href="mailto:svabox@gmail.com" target="_blank">svabox@gmail.com</a>)
schrieb:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div><span><span style="font-family:'helvetica Neue',helvetica;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">
protocol<><span> </span></span></span></div>
</blockquote>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
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