<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 24, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Ilya Belenkiy via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="white-space:pre-wrap" class="">The last sentence was meant to be:<br class="">Private and public have well defined meaning, we should keep the same semantics.<br class=""><br class="">Still, this is an edge case. Maybe we can separate it into another proposal.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>I think any change in semantics should absolutely be a separate proposal. I support scope-based access semantics. My opinion about other access semantics would depend on the details of a specific proposal, but I think there is a very high hurdle to clear for introducing any other access semantics.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="">On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 11:42 AM Ilya Belenkiy via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">This is why I'd like private to mean exactly that (no nested class should get access). Then the meaning is clear: it's as private as it can be :-)<br class=""><br class="">Private and public have well defined meaning. We <br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="">On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 11:33 AM Ross O'Brien via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">I agree that 'private' still feels too subjective on its own. It's intuitively 'not public'; it's not intuitively the access term for 'declaration only'.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I'm not opposed to fileprivate and moduleprivate, if we like those terms. I'd just prefer a corresponding scopeprivate or declarationprivate.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=""><br class="">
> How about we continue this trend, and follow other existing Swift keywords that merge two lowercase words (associatedtype, typealias, etc), and use:<br class="">
><br class="">
> public<br class="">
> moduleprivate<br class="">
> fileprivate<br class="">
> private<br class="">
><br class="">
> The advantages, as I see them are:<br class="">
> 1) We keep public and private meaning the “right” and “obvious” things.<br class="">
> 2) The declmodifiers “read” correctly.<br class="">
> 3) The unusual ones (moduleprivate and fileprivate) don’t use the awkward parenthesized keyword approach.<br class="">
> 4) The unusual ones would be “googable”.<br class="">
> 5) Support for named submodules could be “dropped in” by putting the submodule name/path in parens: private(foo.bar.baz) or moduleprivate(foo.bar). Putting an identifier in the parens is much more natural than putting keywords in parens.<br class="">
><br class="">
> What do you all think?<br class="">
><br class="">
> -Chris<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
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<br class="">
</span>I'm not sure my wording will be perfect here, but I will try: I still believe that private is implied in "module" and "file" and the problem is in the name of the plain "private" keyword.<br class="">
<br class="">
You may say private is obvious, but when you have moduleprivate and fileprivate, the natural question I ask is "What remaining kind of private is there?" so private's obviousness is muddied for me when next to moduleprivate and fileprivate.<br class="">
<br class="">
I will say I would prefer these keywords to the proposed parameter keywords. I just think:<br class="">
<br class="">
file -> implies file only<br class="">
module -> implies module only<br class="">
<br class="">
where adding private to them only adds noise (I.e. fileprivate and moduleprivate)<br class="">
<br class="">
Brandon<br class="">
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