<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Joe, what are the Core Team's requirements for a possible forum software to start a discussion?<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The issues you expressed may be solved by not giving moderation access to community members on such a forum, much like in Mailman.<div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><font color="#929292" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Pozdrawiam – Regards,</font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><font color="#929292" class="">Adrian Kashivskyy</font></div>
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Wiadomość napisana przez Joe Groff <<a href="mailto:jgroff@apple.com" class="">jgroff@apple.com</a>> w dniu 09.03.2016, o godz. 20:03:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I'm wary of any forum software with "community moderation" or gamification features. These inevitably become amplifiers for narrow points of view, and they tend to lead to community owners abdicating their own responsibility for moderating their communities.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Joe</div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 9, 2016, at 2:34 AM, Adrian Kashivskyy via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I'm a very big supporter of moving the discussions to a Discourse forum installation. Here are my arguments:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ol class="MailOutline"><li class=""><b class="">Subscribing to interesting threads</b><br class="">In the mailing list, it is not possible to subscribe to a thread unless the mail client supports it. In a forum, you can subscribe to a thread and you may even turn on email notifications.</li><li class=""><b class="">Muting uninteresting threads</b><br class="">Unless the mail client is supporting it (many don't) – it's not possible to mute a thread – all emails are equally important.</li><li class=""><b class="">Searching</b><br class="">It is way easier to search an indexed forum like Discourse, than searching through 12k emails</li><li class=""><b class="">Message formatting</b><br class="">We tend to include many code examples and formatted text in our messages. Some of us tend to create markdown files on the side and then paste the generated HTML into an email body. Discourse supports mix-and-match of Markdown, HTML and BBEdit.</li><li class=""><b class="">Tags</b><br class="">In the mailing list, most of us tend to include [tags] in the mail subjects, but some folks forget or ignore them. Discourse allows to predefine tags for the threads which improves indexing and searching even more.</li><li class=""><b class="">Pinned threads</b><br class="">Announcements of e.g. ongoing reviews may take a form of pinned threads so they are immediately visible to forum members.</li><li class=""><b class="">The problem of replying to a thread with a changed subject</b><br class="">Sometimes users reply to threads but accidentally add a tag or a whitespace to the message subject. Most mail client interpret it as a new thread and such a reply may be lost in the wild. Replies to coherent forum threads are never lost, they're always in the right place.</li><li class=""><b class="">Accessibility</b><br class="">Even if your mailing client allows all of the above features, sometimes it is needed to access the forums from a phone or on a university computer, where many functionalities are blocked. Although it is possible to access the webmail page in the browser, it is most often painful to navigate through archives (especially on <a href="http://icloud.com/" class="">icloud.com</a> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). When using Discourse, all above features are available everywhere.</li><li class=""><b class="">Permanent links</b><br class="">To share a link to a Discourse discussion, you just copy it from the browser URL field. To share a link to a mailing list reply, you need to open the web archive, find the topic manually and then copy the URL from the browser field anyway.</li><li class=""><b class="">Mentioning other users</b><br class="">In mailing list, this is achievable by including the target user in a recipients list. In forum, you just @mention someone, just like in GitHub issues.</li><li class=""><b class="">Privacy</b><br class="">Some users don't want their private emails to be disclosed in a mailing list. In a forum like Discourse, you can choose whether your email is displayed publicly or not.</li></ol><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I can actually go on and on with my points, but I very much hope that the above list is sufficient to start a serious discussion about migrating to a forum, like Discourse.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><font color="#929292" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Regards,</font></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><font color="#929292" class="">Adrian Kashivskyy</font></div>
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<br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Wiadomość napisana przez Fload via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> w dniu 06.03.2016, o godz. 23:46:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Using Mail here, it works well for me! :)<div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 6, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Kevin Lundberg via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
I wonder if some of the dislike for mailing lists here is due to
people using Mail.app on osx/ios to keep up with discussions. I find
that Thunderbird's mailing list handling is really nice (much better
than Mail.app), since it correctly shows replies as a tree so it's
easy to see which messages reply to which at a glance.<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/6/2016 12:54 PM, Goffredo Marocchi
via swift-evolution wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:B3F215B5-D3CD-45B5-B5EF-6B3522AAB81B@gmail.com" type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div class="">Setting up a custom Google Wave service? ... *waits for
laughter to die down* it is actually open source and did its job
well actually.<br class="">
<br class="">
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
On 6 Mar 2016, at 17:35, Radosław Pietruszewski via
swift-evolution <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
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charset=utf-8" class="">
<div class="">I have to admit that I’ve also gotten used to
the current system, however archaic ;)</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I’d still be happy to move to a more modern
system, but it’s not as important to me as in the
beginning. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The only requirement, I think, for a lot of
people, would be for the new system to still allow
subscription and posting to go through email.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Best,<br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">— Radek</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 05 Mar 2016, at 00:37, Erica Sadun via
swift-evolution <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8" class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">Speaking as someone who tries to observe
trends in discussions, does a lot of search through
her mail archives, </div>
<div class="">and uses gmane to capture permanent
links, I've been very satisfied with the existing
solution. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I suspect that most of us happy users
never get heard in this discussion, so I'm just
putting this out there.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">-- Erica</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 4, 2016, at 3:34 PM, Jacob
Bandes-Storch via swift-evolution <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class=""></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:
Palatino-Roman; font-size: 14px; font-style:
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Friendly
bump:
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Discourse is now free for
open-source projects.<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/" class="">http://blog.discourse.org/2016/03/free-discourse-forum-hosting-for-community-friendly-github-projects/</a></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
swift-evolution mailing list<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class=""><span class="">_______________________________________________</span><br class="">
<span class="">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br class="">
<span class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a></span><br class="">
<span class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></span><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
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<br class="">
<pre wrap="" class="">_______________________________________________
swift-evolution mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div></body></html>