<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">+1 on the proposal. Those of us who will be living in a mixed code world for the foreseeable future would make great use of it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 15, 2016, at 9:28 PM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">While the Swift and Objective-C generics systems look similar on the surface, they use fundamentally different semantic models. Specifically, Objective-C lightweight generics are based on <em style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">type erasure</em>, so we cannot in general recover the type arguments from the metaclass of an Objective-C parameterized class (i.e., because <code style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: Consolas, 'Liberation Mono', Menlo, Courier, monospace; font-size: 14px; padding: 0.2em 0px; margin: 0px; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0392157); border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px;" class="">MySet</code>, <code style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: Consolas, 'Liberation Mono', Menlo, Courier, monospace; font-size: 14px; padding: 0.2em 0px; margin: 0px; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0392157); border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px;" class="">MySet<NSString *></code>, and <code style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: Consolas, 'Liberation Mono', Menlo, Courier, monospace; font-size: 14px; padding: 0.2em 0px; margin: 0px; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0392157); border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px;" class="">MySet<NSNumber *></code> all share a metaclass). This leads to several restrictions:</p><ul style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class=""><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 16px; margin-bottom: 16px;" class="">Downcasting to an instance or metatype of a parameterized Objective-C class is inherently uncheckable, so we place limits on such casts. For example,</p><div class=""><br class=""></div></li></ul></div></div></blockquote>I think this is a reasonable restriction. The as! cast is basically what you get in Objective-C anyway (a runtime crash when your promise to the compiler is broken).</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><h3 style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 16px; line-height: 1.43; font-size: 1.5em; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><span style="font-size: 16px; font-weight: normal;" class="">The only major alternative design involves bringing type erasure into the Swift generics system as an alternative implementation. It would lift the restrictions on extensions of parameterized Objective-C classes by treating type parameters in such contexts as the type bounds:</span></h3><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Doing so could allow the use of "unspecialized" generic types within Swift, e.g., <code style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: Consolas, 'Liberation Mono', Menlo, Courier, monospace; font-size: 14px; padding: 0.2em 0px; margin: 0px; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0392157); border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px;" class="">NSMutableArray</code> with no type bounds (possibly spelled <code style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: Consolas, 'Liberation Mono', Menlo, Courier, monospace; font-size: 14px; padding: 0.2em 0px; margin: 0px; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.0392157); border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px;" class="">NSMutableArray<*></code>), which would more accurately represent Objective-C semantics in Swift.</p><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin-bottom: 0px !important;" class="">However, doing so comes at the cost of having two incompatible generics models implemented in Swift, which produces both a high conceptual burden as well as a high implementation cost. The proposed solution implies less implementation cost and puts the limitations on what one can express when working with parameterized Objective-C classes without fundamentally changing the Swift model.</div></div><br class=""></blockquote><br class=""></div><div>Strongly agree that this would be a bad idea.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div>Russ</div><br class=""></body></html>