<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 2, 2016, at 5:22 PM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-size: 14px;"><i class="">*Generalized existentials</i></span></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">The restrictions on existential types came from an implementation limitation, but it is reasonable to allow a value of protocol type even when the protocol has Self constraints or associated types. For example, consider IteratorProtocol again and how it could be used as an existential:</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><blockquote class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div class=""><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">protocol IteratorProtocol {</font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class=""> associatedtype Element</font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class=""> mutating func next() -> Element?</font></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">}</font></div></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">let it: IteratorProtocol = …</font></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">it.next() // if this is permitted, it could return an “Any?”, i.e., the existential that wraps the actual element</font></div></blockquote><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face="Menlo" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Additionally, it is reasonable to want to constrain the associated types of an existential, e.g., “a Sequence whose element type is String” could be expressed by putting a where clause into “protocol<…>” or “Any<…>” (per “Renaming protocol<…> to Any<…>”):</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><blockquote class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">let strings: Any<Sequence<b class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>where .Iterator.Element == String</b>> = [“a”, “b”, “c”]</font></div></blockquote><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">The leading “.” indicates that we’re talking about the dynamic type, i.e., the “Self” type that’s conforming to the Sequence protocol. There’s no reason why we cannot support arbitrary “where” clauses within the “Any<…>”. This very-general syntax is a bit unwieldy, but common cases can easily be wrapped up in a generic typealias (see the section “Generic typealiases” above):</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><blockquote class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">typealias AnySequence<Element> =<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Any<Sequence where .Iterator.Element == Element></b></font></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">let strings: AnySequence<String> = [“a”, “b”, “c”]</font></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Something else to consider: Maybe we should require Any<...> to refer to all existential types, including single-protocol existentials (so you'd have to say var x: Any<Drawable> instead of var x: Drawable). Between static method requirements, init requirements, and contravariant self and associated type constraints, there are a lot of ways our protocols can diverge in their capabilities as constraints and dynamic types. And with resilience, *no* public protocol type can be assumed to resilient implicitly conform to its protocol, since new versions may introduce new requirements that break the self-conformance. If protocols are namespaced separately from types, you could still do something like:</div><div><br class=""></div></div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class=""><div><div>typealias Drawable: Drawable = Any<Drawable></div><div><br class=""></div></div></blockquote>if you intend to use the protocol type primarily as a dynamic type (and assert that it's self-conforming).<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><i class="" style="font-size: 14px;">Opening existentials</i></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Generalized existentials as described above will still have trouble with protocol requirements that involve Self or associated types in function parameters. For example, let’s try to use Equatable as an existential:</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><blockquote class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">protocol Equatable {</font></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class=""> func ==(lhs: Self, rhs: Self) -> Bool</font></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class=""> func !=(lhs: Self, rhs: Self) -> Bool</font></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">}</font></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">let e1: Equatable = …</font></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">let e2: Equatable = …</font></div><div class=""><font face="Menlo" class="">if e1 == e2 { … }<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">//<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">error</b>:</i> e1 and e2 don’t necessarily have the same dynamic type</font></div></blockquote><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">One explicit way to allow such operations in a type-safe manner is to introduce an “open existential” operation of some sort, which extracts and gives a name to the dynamic type stored inside an existential. For example:</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span> </div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><blockquote class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><font face="Menlo" class="">if let storedInE1 = e1 openas T { // T is a the type of storedInE1, a copy of the value stored in e1</font></blockquote><blockquote class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><font face="Menlo" class=""> if let storedInE2 = e2 as? T { // is e2 also a T?</font></blockquote><blockquote class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><font face="Menlo" class=""> if storedInE1 == storedInE2 { … } // okay: storedInT1 and storedInE2 are both of type T, which we know is Equatable</font></blockquote><blockquote class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><font face="Menlo" class=""> }</font></blockquote><blockquote class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><font face="Menlo" class="">}</font></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">Another possibility here is to allow for path-dependent types based on a 'let' binding:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class=""><div class="">let e1: Any<Equatable> = ...</div><div class="">let e2: Any<Equatable> = ...</div><div class="">// Is e2 the same static type as e1?</div><div class="">if let e3 = e2 as? e1.Self {</div><div class=""> return e1 == e3</div><div class="">}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">let s1: Any<Sequence> = ...</div><div class="">let s2: Any<Sequence> = ...</div><div class="">// Are the sequences of the same type? If so, concatenate them.</div><div class="">var x: [s1.Element] = []</div><div class="">if let s3 = s2 as? Any<Sequence where Element == s1.Element> {</div><div class=""> x += s1</div><div class=""> x += s3</div><div class="">}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote>A close kin to angle-bracket blindness is type variable blindness. It'd be nice to avoid having to introduce explicit local type variables.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Joe</div></body></html>