<div dir="ltr">I personally like the functionality outlined in this proposal. Also *tip of my hat* to those that have put together this proposal and prototype implementation.<div><br></div><div>The biggest issue seems to be the syntax for it and it is becoming hard to follow the discussion thread given all the – often nicely – outlined alternatives.<div><br></div><div>I guess it isn't clear what of the alternatives are seriously being considered, etc. ... as well as the state of the proposal potentially incorporating these alternates.</div><div><br></div><div>If property behaviors are likely to be user definable in addition to a canned set of behaviors provided by the standard library then I feel we should attempt to avoid yet another methodology of name-spacing / extending. I feel we should attempt to leverage existing language methodologies as possible (for example the suggestion around consider behaviors as an extension to var and let, etc.).</div><div><br></div><div>I don't have anything really to propose along those lines (still trying to get a lot worked out in my head) but I wanted to express my first gut feeling on this.</div><div><br></div><div>-Shawn</div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 2:38 PM Joe Groff via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi everyone. In response to feedback, I've extended the review period for SE-0030 for another week. I've also decided to subset out <b>member access</b> from the initial proposal, as in accessing `x.[lazy].clear()` or other behavior-provided methods on a property. There's a lot of contention about the syntax, of course, but Michel Fortin and private reviewers have made good points that tying these "out-of-band" non-type members to properties is a feature that may not be best expressed as part of behaviors. Like many of the other topics that were factored out, the design space is deep enough that out-of-band member access deserves a design and review of its own. Thank you all for the feedback so far!<div><br></div><div>-Joe</div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Feb 10, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Hello Swift community,</p><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The review of SE-0030 "Property Behaviors" begins now and runs through February, 2016. The proposal is available here:</p><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 15px;color:rgb(119,119,119);border-left-width:4px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(221,221,221);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/NNNN-proposal.md" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(64,120,192);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0030-property-behavior-decls.md</a></div></blockquote><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Reviews are an important part of the Swift evolution process. All reviews should be sent to the swift-evolution mailing list at</p><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 15px;color:rgb(119,119,119);border-left-width:4px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(221,221,221);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(64,120,192);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div></blockquote><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">or, if you would like to keep your feedback private, directly to the review manager. When replying, please try to keep the proposal link at the top of the message:</p><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 15px;color:rgb(119,119,119);border-left-width:4px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(221,221,221);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px">Proposal link:</p><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 15px;border-left-width:4px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(221,221,221)"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0030-property-behavior-decls.md" target="_blank">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0030-property-behavior-decls.md</a></div></blockquote><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px">Reply text</p><blockquote style="margin:0px;padding:0px 15px;border-left-width:4px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(221,221,221)"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Other replies</div></blockquote></blockquote><h5 style="margin-top:1em;margin-bottom:16px;line-height:1.4;font-size:1em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution#what-goes-into-a-review-1" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(64,120,192);text-decoration:none;display:inline-block;padding-right:2px;line-height:1.1" target="_blank"><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></a>What goes into a review?</h5><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The goal of the review process is to improve the proposal under review through constructive criticism and, eventually, determine the direction of Swift. When writing your review, here are some questions you might want to answer in your review:</p><ul style="padding:0px 0px 0px 2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><li>What is your evaluation of the proposal?</li><li>Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?</li><li>Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</li><li>If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</li><li>How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</li></ul><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">More information about the Swift evolution process is available at</p><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 16px;padding:0px 15px;color:rgb(119,119,119);border-left-width:4px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(221,221,221);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(64,120,192);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md</a></div></blockquote><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Thank you,</p><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Doug Gregor</p><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,'Segoe UI',Arial,freesans,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji','Segoe UI Symbol';font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Review Manager</p></div>_______________________________________________<br>swift-evolution mailing list<br><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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