<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I think the proposal should include some discussion on the common cases where this operator would be useful. As such, I don’t see much hard of including this, except that I am not sure that the problem is significant enough to warrant a reaction. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">— T</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 13 Feb 2016, at 11:11, Radosław Pietruszewski via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">+0.5<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am generally for this proposal, because I don’t see why not — there are cases where this is useful, and it’s symmetric with other X/X= operator pairs, so it’s not like it’s a completely new thing.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">However, I don’t think the operator is _as_ useful in Swift as it is in other languages.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In Ruby, for example, it’s extremely common to use `||=` (an equivalent of ??=, more or less) to modify function arguments, e.g. assign default values if nil was passed. But you can’t do that in Swift since SE-0003 removed the ability to mark a parameter as `var`.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So you can’t do that</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>arg ??= default</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">and you have to do</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>let arg = arg ?? default</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Except you wouldn’t want the earlier version anyway, because `arg` would continue to be an optional. A notion not relevant in a dynamically typed language, but in Swift, it matters.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And I see other cases like this. A proposal to add `??=` to Swift was one of the first Swift radars I filed, because it was just something I was really used to. But with time I realized there are actually relatively few cases where this is useful. And that’s all because of Swift’s characteristics: it’s statically typed, it pushes you to use constants and not variables where possible, optionality is explicit, and avoided when not necessary.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Still, I searched through my code and found _a few_ instances of `??=` (my own implementation), almost all used for dealing with dictionaries (and a dictionary-like structure in a library called SwiftyUserDefaults) — and having this operator definitely improved the clarity of those places.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><ul class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box;">What is your evaluation of the proposal?</li></ul></div></blockquote></div><div class="">All in all, I’m for.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><ul class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box;">Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?</li></ul></div></blockquote></div><div class="">I’d say yes, because it’s simple to implement, and carries little risk AFAICT. Still, it’s not as significant an improvement as many of the other proposals.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><ul class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box;">Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</li></ul></div></blockquote></div><div class="">Again, ??= is only useful in _some_ cases, and in many other cases you want to avoid optionality and mutability. So it’s not necessarily something we want to encourage a lot, but I don’t see real risk in people trying to damage their Swift code just so they can use ??=. And OTOH having nice tools for dealing with optionality when it’s necessary is a very Swifty thing to do, so overall, yes.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><ul class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box;">If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</li></ul></div></blockquote><div class="">Mostly dynamically typed languages with ||=, Ruby in particular. Also my own implementation of ??= in my projects and <a href="https://github.com/radex/swiftyuserdefaults" class="">https://github.com/radex/swiftyuserdefaults</a></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><ul class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box;">How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</li></ul></div></blockquote><div class="">A quick reading of the proposal.</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,<br class=""><div class="">
<div class="">— Radek</div>
</div>
<br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 13 Feb 2016, at 06:15, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Hello Swift community,</p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">The review of SE-0024 "Optional Value Setter `??=`" begins now and runs through February 18, 2016. The proposal is available here:</p><blockquote style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 16px; padding: 0px 15px; border-left-width: 4px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><font color="#777777" face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Segoe UI, Arial, freesans, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol" size="3" class=""><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0024-optional-value-setter.md" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0024-optional-value-setter.md</a></font></div></blockquote><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Reviews are an important part of the Swift evolution process. All reviews should be sent to the swift-evolution mailing list at</p><blockquote style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 16px; padding: 0px 15px; color: rgb(119, 119, 119); border-left-width: 4px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(64, 120, 192); text-decoration: none;" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div></blockquote><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">or, if you would like to keep your feedback private, directly to the review manager. When replying, please try to keep the proposal link at the top of the message:</p><blockquote style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 16px; padding: 0px 15px; border-left-width: 4px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><p style="color: rgb(119, 119, 119); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px;" class="">Proposal link:</p><blockquote style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 16px; padding: 0px 15px; border-left-width: 4px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221);" class=""><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><font color="#777777" face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Segoe UI, Arial, freesans, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol" size="3" class=""><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0024-optional-value-setter.md" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0024-optional-value-setter.md</a></font></div></blockquote><p style="color: rgb(119, 119, 119); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px;" class="">Reply text</p><blockquote style="color: rgb(119, 119, 119); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 15px; border-left-width: 4px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221);" class=""><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">Other replies</div></blockquote></blockquote><h5 style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 1em; margin-bottom: 16px; line-height: 1.4; font-size: 1em; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><a id="user-content-what-goes-into-a-review-1" class="anchor" href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution#what-goes-into-a-review-1" aria-hidden="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(64, 120, 192); text-decoration: none; display: inline-block; padding-right: 2px; margin-left: -18px; line-height: 1.1;"><svg aria-hidden="true" class="octicon octicon-link" height="16" role="img" version="1.1" viewBox="0 0 16 16" width="16"><path d="M4 9h1v1h-1c-1.5 0-3-1.69-3-3.5s1.55-3.5 3-3.5h4c1.45 0 3 1.69 3 3.5 0 1.41-0.91 2.72-2 3.25v-1.16c0.58-0.45 1-1.27 1-2.09 0-1.28-1.02-2.5-2-2.5H4c-0.98 0-2 1.22-2 2.5s1 2.5 2 2.5z m9-3h-1v1h1c1 0 2 1.22 2 2.5s-1.02 2.5-2 2.5H9c-0.98 0-2-1.22-2-2.5 0-0.83 0.42-1.64 1-2.09v-1.16c-1.09 0.53-2 1.84-2 3.25 0 1.81 1.55 3.5 3 3.5h4c1.45 0 3-1.69 3-3.5s-1.5-3.5-3-3.5z"></path></svg></a>What goes into a review?</h5><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">The goal of the review process is to improve the proposal under review through constructive criticism and, eventually, determine the direction of Swift. When writing your review, here are some questions you might want to answer in your review:</p><ul style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">What is your evaluation of the proposal?</li><li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?</li><li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?</li><li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</li><li style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?</li></ul><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">More information about the Swift evolution process is available at</p><blockquote style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 16px; padding: 0px 15px; color: rgb(119, 119, 119); border-left-width: 4px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(64, 120, 192); text-decoration: none;" class="">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md</a></div></blockquote><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Thank you,</p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Doug Gregor</p><p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol'; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Review Manager</p></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>