<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Just to clarify:</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">"<span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I wonder specifically whether cases of ivars should be lower or upper case."</span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Should have read:</span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">"</span><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I wonder specifically whether cases of enums should be lower or upper case."</span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Thanks autocorrect!</span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div>On 1 Feb 2016, at 12:56 AM, Rod Brown via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div><span></span></div><div><div><span></span></div><div><div>My apologies. Mail failed and sent my review off early!</div><div><br></div><div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I can't believe I let it get this far before I began to post regarding these language proposals.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><ul class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px;"><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">What is your evaluation of the proposal?</span></font></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I like the proposal, and the direction it shows for Swift. I'm particularly fond of the concise nature of the language.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I wonder specifically whether cases of ivars should be lower or upper case. I tend to think lower case makes more sense in the context of Swift, but I am personally fond of the upper camel case. Perhaps my eyes have just grown accustomed?</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I am particularly in favour of the sort() vs sorted() verb vs noun. I definitely see the points raised and acknowledge that the subtleties of language mean there will always be exceptions to rules where it doesn't make sense, and I think the "inPlace" wording makes sense to fill this gap.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I'm personally not a fan of the strong guidance to eliminate initial argument labels. I find this somewhat of a holdover from the awkward translation of Obj-C APIs, and I think there are cases where the initial parameter makes sense to be named. The login example, while it has its flaws, makes some sense here.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">loginWithUsername("Rod", password: "Password")</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">vs</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">login(username:"Rod", password: "Password")</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Placing the WithUsername prior to the bracket implies that the username has more importance, at least to my eye. As has been discussed, it probably does have more importance, but I think it makes a fair point that there are cases where both arguments are simply peers that should be labeled without emphasis on the leading item. I think that naming each parameter for clarity makes sense in those cases, and this should be noted in documentation. </span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">For all other elements, I am definitely in favour.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><ul class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px;"><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?</span></font></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I definitely think the language benefits from guidance like this. I wonder whether we may need to come back and review this in a few years as we see where Swift goes, but my hope is it keeps the same basic feel.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><ul class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px;"><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift? </span></font></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">These language directions seem very consistent with Swift's direction.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><ul class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2em; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px;"><li class="" style="box-sizing: border-box;"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">If you have used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?</span></font></li></ul></div></div></blockquote></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I find languages with clear guidelines tend to be somewhat more ordered. I'm definitely in favour of the a reference document that outlines standard practice, as it is beneficial both when teaching, and when reading people's code. Consistency breeds clarity, and these types of guides help consistency between developers.</span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>swift-evolution mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>