<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Am 25.01.2016 um 19:25 schrieb Joe Groff <<a href="mailto:jgroff@apple.com" class="">jgroff@apple.com</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">On Jan 24, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Thorsten Seitz <<a href="mailto:tseitz42@icloud.com" class="">tseitz42@icloud.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Am 23.01.2016 um 20:30 schrieb Joe Groff <<a href="mailto:jgroff@apple.com" class="">jgroff@apple.com</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">On Jan 23, 2016, at 8:14 AM, Thorsten Seitz <<a href="mailto:tseitz42@icloud.com" class="">tseitz42@icloud.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Am 23.01.2016 um 01:33 schrieb Joe Groff via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>changing the proposed syntax for behavior member lookup to 'property.[behavior].member', as suggested by Tal Atlas and others. I think this has a nice symmetry with the `var [behavior]` declaration syntax, and doesn't occupy any new sigils. On the other had, Curt Clifton and others have raised the point that it could be mistaken for a subscript at a glance.</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As a minor issue I’m not very fond of the behavior member lookup syntax because of the similarity to a subscript. The symmetry with the declaration syntax will break down a little bit as soon as the declaration syntax allows a list of composed behaviors.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;">To reduce the complexity of the initial feature review, I've also removed many of the bells and whistles from this initial version for separate consideration. For now, I'm saying initializer requirements are always "eager" (can't refer to self) and always inline-initialized. This imposes some inconvenience on some use cases, but is an additive feature. I've also left behavior composition, extending behaviors, overloading behaviors and […] </span>as future extensions</div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">I think behavior composition should be included right from the beginning as this might require breaking changes otherwise.</div></div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Practically speaking, I think there are inevitably going to be breaking changes here once we get some experience with the feature.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>That’s a fair point :-)</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">It won't ship until 3.0 at the earliest. Many of the other features I've cut, including the initialization generalizations and extensions, would also be ABI-breaking changes at the implementation level.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Ok, thanks! But doesn’t this collide with the goal of Swift 3.0 of a stable ABI?</div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">I hope we'll have the feature stabilized by then, of course. However, it's a strong goal for this feature to be "zero-cost" with little or no runtime footprint. If we're successful at that, there should be more or less no ABI impact, since behaviors would just be compile-time sugar.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Good point! I think making behaviors "zero-cost“ is a great idea!</div><div><br class=""></div><div>-Thorsten</div><br class=""></body></html>