<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Adding more details…<div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 20, 2016, at 8:46 PM, Slava Pestov via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">I'm a little concerned about exposing these things publicly: there's no point if the struct or class has non-public fields (because new non-delegating initializers can't initialize the non-public fields), and by default every struct and class is allowed to <i class="">add</i> non-public fields in new versions of a library. (See the LibraryEvolution.rst doc for more info.) I can kind of see making these private vs. internal, but that has other issues (see below).</div><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Even in the case where all fields are public and the struct promises not to change any fields, you'd<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">also</i> have to promise that the partial initializer never changes which properties it's initializing; that's now part of the binary interface of the file. That's unusual for something that behaves like a function; usually the body is not part of the ABI.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I'd much rather just ban 'public' and never have partial inits be part of a library's public interface. Public initializer methods would be presented as plain methods, with no hint of their initializer origins.</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>If we just go with @_transparent functions for partial initialization, there are no new rules to add regarding ABI resilience. :-)</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">I'm ultimately<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">still</i> not convinced that this is the right way to reduce initializer boilerplate (phase 1 duplication between initializers, or shared code between initializers and methods). It again adds complexity to the language, and that added complexity may not be worth the payoff.</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>This is really my main concern with the proposal.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Also I would suggest that the part regarding argument forwarding could probably be split off and discussed separately — I think this has applicability outside of initializers.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Slava</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">Jordan</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 14, 2016, at 20:08, Matthew Johnson via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">I have completed the second draft of my partial initializers proposal (the first really complete draft). <div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This proposal also includes some discussion of memberwise initialization at John McCall’s request. If anyone would like to continue discussing that topic informally I will be happy to do so, however any such discussion should happen on one of the existing memberwise initialization threads or on a new thread related to that topic. Please do not let that section of the document be a distraction from the partial initializer proposal itself.</div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The new draft can be found here:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://github.com/anandabits/swift-evolution/blob/partial-initializers/proposals/NNNN-partial-initializers.md" class="">https://github.com/anandabits/swift-evolution/blob/partial-initializers/proposals/NNNN-partial-initializers.md</a></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I really appreciate any feedback you have!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Matthew</div></div><img src="https://u2002410.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/open?upn=ZEz4qHYnXhPr3bBPu-2FxP4tN3HfWKL-2FtJpqkQ0gkOVSBA1RWShn3xA6rbNnnGhqRjzSX6-2BNfSVBW0qdMNmA-2FD-2Fgbv4NIKoEvXcUesrisuHWNoyLemNRmIRr3mA5zBklkY3-2BR6UWSgK1brFciZQ-2B4fyYXEIsx3-2FRtsVZ4zFwoCYrcRqi-2BeUk62ZnGwyj3lDo5tRVcemwwqvA8tCHG-2F9ee7Zi-2FwBC8j6N7F626lsFgATmc-3D" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" class="" style="height: 1px !important; width: 1px !important; border-width: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; padding: 0px !important;"></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">swift-evolution mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">swift-evolution mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">swift-evolution@swift.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>