<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>I will add one thing here that I don't think has been mentioned, which is code completion in Xcode.</div><div><br></div><div>Frequently, I use "self." to see what methods/properties are available to me on the current object. If I am working on a project where implicit self is preferred (as suggested by a number of style guides), going back and removing these self references is unfortunate.</div><div><br></div><div>Also reading further in the thread I realize that the issue mention below was addressed. Furthermore, perhaps "strongly" in favor is not quite right. I could deal with the status quo.</div><div><br></div><div>Tyler</div><div><br>On Dec 21, 2015, at 3:43 AM, Tyler Cloutier via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div></div><div>I'm strongly in favor of the proposal, but I too think the proposal is missing balance. I'd really like to see all the points for and against laid out in one place, so they can be weighed appropriately.</div><div><br></div><div>Tyler</div><div><br>On Dec 16, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Nick Shelley via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Also, the "community responses" section only lists the positive community responses, when the actual community discussion seemed to be more of an even split (if not more people opposed). That's just more evidence that at least this particular proposal is blatantly and purposefully one-sided in its representation of the community's input.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Nick Shelley <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nickmshelley@gmail.com" target="_blank">nickmshelley@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-size:12.8px">All of the prior swift-evolution commentary on this proposal (which is nearing the 100-message mark) will also be considered, of course!</span></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>It is my opinion that the proposal should encapsulate as much of that discussion as possible so every reviewer doesn't have to read every comment in that thread. The current proposal is wildly one-sided and seems to only reflect the opinion of its author and those who agree with the proposal. I created a Pull Request (<a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/pull/59" target="_blank">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/pull/59</a>, still not merged and no comments as to why) to more fairly represent the single counter-argument pointed out in the proposal, but others in the mailing list expressed concern that none of the other downsides of the proposal are represented at all.</div><div><br></div><div>Is my (and others') desire to have the proposal contain an accurate representation of the main points of the community discussion off base? Is the main purpose of the proposal to be a sales pitch for an idea, even if it includes building up and tearing down straw-man versions of the arguments brought forth by the opposition? I'm asking with sincere curiosity because I can't seem to find a good description of the purpose of the proposal in my research of how the evolution process works.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks in advance for clarifying these points for me.</div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">All of the prior swift-evolution commentary on this proposal (which is nearing the 100-message mark) will also be considered, of course!<div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>- Doug<br><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div>On Dec 16, 2015, at 10:55 AM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution <<a href="mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org" target="_blank">swift-evolution@swift.org</a>> wrote:</div><br></div></div><div><div><div><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hello Swift community,<div><br><div>The review of “Require self for accessing instance members” begins now and runs through Sunday, December 20th. The proposal is available here:</div></div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0009-require-self-for-accessing-instance-members.md" target="_blank">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0009-require-self-for-accessing-instance-members.md</a></div><div><br></div><div><div>Reviews are an important part of the Swift evolution process. All reviews should be sent to the swift-evolution mailing list at</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a href="https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution" target="_blank">https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution</a></div><div><br></div><div>or, if you would like to keep your feedback private, directly to the review manager.</div><div><br></div><div>What goes into a review?</div><div><br>The goal of the review process is to improve the proposal under review through constructive criticism and, eventually, determine the direction of Swift. When writing your review, here are some questions you might want to answer in your review:<br><br><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>* What is your evaluation of the proposal?<br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>* Is the problem being addressed significant enough to warrant a change to Swift?<br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>* Does this proposal fit well with the feel and direction of Swift?<br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>* If you have you used other languages or libraries with a similar feature, how do you feel that this proposal compares to those?<br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>* How much effort did you put into your review? A glance, a quick reading, or an in-depth study?<br></div><br></div><div>More information about the Swift evolution process is available at</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><a href="https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md" target="_blank">https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/process.md</a></div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Cheers,</div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Doug Gregor</div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Review Manager</div></div>
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